Enjoying quiet drink & elder man approaches

sorry that should be entitlement

That's the real reason I don't want to engage with these men. They're invariably painfully dull conversationalists , and you end up having to do all the heavy lifting in the conversation. When you were really really looking forward to watching the match/ reading your book/ being alone with your thoughts.

The main thing is that people need to read the room. If you start talking to someone, and they don’t seem interested in talking to you, then walk away. Don’t wait around and force them to spell it out to you. It makes them feel at best uncomfortable, and at worst threatened.

The other day I was at one of those self checkout things at the supermarket, and it was playing up as usual. While I was waiting for a member of staff to come and fix it, I said to the woman next to me “these things are a nightmare aren’t they”. She completely ignored me. Maybe she didn’t hear me, maybe she disagreed with me, maybe she just didn’t feel like talking, for whatever reason. I have no idea. But the point is, it was obvious to me that she wasn’t going to engage, so I didn’t say anything else. She had no obligation to talk to me, and I had no right to expect it, so that was the end of it. It didn’t require advanced skills in non verbal communication to know that she didn’t want to engage, and that’s her prerogative.

You don’t have to be sleazy-you might be the nicest man in the world, but if a woman doesn’t want to talk to you, she doesn’t have to!!!

Not going to any lengths to excuse any behaviour at all, just merely pointing out there can be many different reasons for trying to strike up a conversation, not all of them being that someone is a creep. If you can’t see that then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

If they’re striking up conversations with everyone, then that’s not the same situation at all, is it? This man ignored all the other men and was only attempting to strike up a conversation with the one single woman who was half his age. Your men are striking up conversations with men and women equally.

👏

I haven’t attacked your mothering skills at all. I was talking about what I thought your feelings were, not your ability to raise children.

I’d strongly disagree. You’ve taken the OP’s experience, and the experiences of many other women who see these men for what they are, and you’ve gone to quite a length to find excuses for him pestering a woman half his age and to make her feel like she over reacted and was wrong for feeling uncomfortable. You’re effectively telling her that she should give every random man the benefit of the doubt, rather than put her own comfort first. That’s misogyny, even if you don’t recognise it as such. Women aren’t here to ensure that men have a lovely chat whenever they want one.

And I can assure you I haven’t name changed at all. I thought MN had put a stop to posters being able to do that mid thread. I have the courage of my convictions and if I can be bothered, I have no issues with having a full and frank exchange of views without pretending to be half a dozen other posters. And if that doesn’t convince you, I have peri menopausal brain fog. I don’t have the capacity to pretend to be anyone else and not trip myself up.

He may be a creep, but equally he may not be. I’m just saying there isn’t enough here to say Come on, you know he’s a creep. We all know he’s a creep. He’s walked straight past all the other single blokes his own age and has made a beeline for the one single woman and ignored her attempt to fuck him off. You seriously think he was after a chat about what beers they had on tap? Or what her thoughts were on current world events? And if you insist on continuing with this faux naivety, would you approach a 20 year old man by himself, put your handbag on the back of his chair and continue talking at him even though he was clearly ignoring you? And if not, why not?

God help you if you ever came to our local to watch the rugby. It's wall to wall super friendly old men.

There is virtually zero chance of them not striking up conversation. None, absolutely none of them are being sleazy.

Perhaps the PP shouldn’t have attacked my mothering skills then? As you have also done.

At no point have I been misogynistic- am suspecting you are a name change here and I’m validating my point to the same person but if you read my posts all you will see is I’m trying to say there could be alternative explanations and I’m unclear why everyone is so quick to jump to the most negative on the man.

He may be a creep, but equally he may not be. I’m just saying there isn’t enough here to say.

Don’t do that Daisy. You’ve expressed some pretty misogynistic opinions. And I understand why; you’ve not fought against your conditioning and you have sons so don’t want to think about the possibility that some men aren’t as decent as they should be. It’s far easier to shut your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and not think about the large numbers of men who subject women to their unwanted attention. But don’t make out that someone’s life is crap because they’re able to recognise a creep when they see one.

OP, either you have posted this or a very similar situation previously, or there is an emerging pattern of women who are in to rugby who don't like men talking to them when they're in cafes engaged with the sport.

Because it doesn’t agree with your POV?? .. giving a different perspective is not apologist. Get a grip.

Looking down, smiling, after she told him she wasn’t interested is super invasive and bordering on harassment. Why must younger women accommodate old boring men who are dying to vomit their very boring, one way conversation in their direction? It’s irrelevant to ask if he’d been younger or not, I’m sure Op could make that decision for herself at the moment it occurred

There’s no apologist behaviour and there is not necessarily an old creep. I feel sorry for your negativity. Your life must suck to be so negative. So sorry for you.

Exactly! None of these completely innocent, friendly, lonely gentlemen ever try to have a chat with 85 year old Doris, sat on her own in a cafe with a pot of tea, or sat on a park bench watching the world go by, do they? It never seems to occur to any of them that she might be lonely. Why is that, do you think?

This man was trying his luck. With someone who was clearly young enough to be his daughter. If you don’t think that makes him creepy then I don’t know what to say to you. But suggesting women should avoid pubs or making up ridiculous excuses for why he was refusing to acknowledge her ignoring him is an indication of just how conditioned you are to think that it’s a woman’s job to handle these men with kid gloves so they don’t get offended.

And people say there’s no need for feminism anymore 🤦‍♀️

@Middlechild3there were men alone did he chat to them? nope beeline for the lone woman, stop justifying men and their shitty behaviour.

@DaisyDoodler it’s concerning your apologist behaviour for shitty men when you have 3 sons, are you that mother who will blame your sons partners for everything and your boys can do no wrong?
Stop excusing this old creeps intrusive behaviour.

Maybe he wanted to protect you from the Rugby if it was the one in Rome!

Do you?
Not answering back to someone you don’t know from Adam isn’t enough to give the message ‘Leave me alone’? Nope it has to be clearly stated just in case, after 70 years on this Earth, a man didn’t get the memo …

Or do you mean the OP should have done an announcement before hand?

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Yep, this has all happened to me pretty much as well.

I remember being asked to smile when walking down the street by two men standing outside a pub when id just returned to work after my sister had died. I stopped, walked back to them and told them off and they looked suitably chastened and one of them admitted that his mum had recently died too and he didn't know why he was shouting at women to smile in the street as like me, he'd be upset if someone said that to him. I told him, you don't know what is going on in people's lives and to comment on their looks or how they look in a street is not fair, not polite and not nice. I do think I made him think twice for future. I was polite, but explained clearly why it was not appropriate.

I've had old men sidle up to me when I'm alone, commenting on my appearance, one had the brass neck to tell me I shouldn't be eating my lunch (baked potato with tuna) as I needed to watch my weight (I was a size 12 at the time, I'm tall as well, so not overweight at all). I was sitting outside in the sunshine on my lunch break minding my own business. He made a beeline to me and pointed his walking stick at me and told me I shouldn't be eating that as I'd get "fatter". The fucker. I just told him to bother someone else and then asked him, I wonder, why don't you go and tell those workers over there (there were male workers in high Vis sitting near me eating McDonald's) what they should or shouldn't eat, eh?! He just walked on and didn't reply. The fucker walked past them to target me.

I've been sworn at for turning down men, I did it politely and was in no way confrontational. Young or old. Doesn't matter.

The older I get the less I tolerate it. These type of men can get in the bin.

YANBU, OP. It's astonishing how many men only seem to want to be 'friendly' with women two or three decades younger.

No you weren’t rude, there’s no obligation to talk to someone just because they want to talk to you. But rather than ignoring him you just say right off ‘thanks but I just want to watch the rugby’.