To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

Just give the swimming costume back FFS.

I’d use today to make a new thread! I’d suggest losing her and the person who invited her if she doesn’t bother coming any longer anyway

Get in touch with her EX friend and find out what happened. Everyone needs to ice her out. (She will state that this “aaaalways happens to her” because she is unable to be accountable

That’s a nice story, @WorkingItOutAsIGo (and good that you married the kind, interventionist chap!), but I think, as you say yourself, there is a big difference between an unusually immature teenager who was probably hiding his own insecurity about no longer effortlessly being the clever one by being obnoxious and a woman presumably well into adulthood whom the OP doesn’t appear to know particularly well or to have any particular reason to like.

I mean, I’d have no issue telling her myself, but as far as I can see, the issue here is less ‘Susan’s’ behaviour than the fact that everyone else involved, including the OP, is a wet lettuce who prefers to fume in silence than say ‘Give me back my swimsuit’ and ‘No, I’m not helping you up a mountain. Stay at home if you’re unwell.’

I have often told this story over the last 40 years to people in dilemmas such as the OP's. It dates from my first year at university, when one of my fellow freshers, who was a little bit younger than everybody else and clearly used to being super bright at his school, really annoyed everyone by being constantly arrogant and sneery about his aptitude - when we'd all got into the same university.

One of my friends took it upon himself to take the cocky boy out for a drink and to tell him very clearly that he was being a prick and was alienating everyone and he needed to shape up or else he'd have a terrible time at university. Nobody else dared to do it or wanted to do it or wanted to expose themselves to the possible unpleasantness of doing this, but this one friend did.

To the young lad's credit, he listened, took note and completely regrouped and started behaving like a decent human being. It just took one person brave enough to invest in him a little bit and to take the responsibility to set him on the right path.

I have often told this story to people who have had friends being selfish and unpleasant and I have said the personal responsibility you have to someone who has been a friend is to tell someone that their behaviour is upsetting you - it's an act of love to help them in this way. Almost everyone I know who's done it was just going to cut the other person out and in fact most have found that it has salvaged the friendship and the person who was told was grateful.

I am not saying that the OP owes this particular woman any bond of friendship, but I do think a phone call to say that her behaviour is unacceptable and she either needs to shape up or the group will be reforming without her is a kindness.

To close out my anecdote, I am still friends 40 years later with the cocky young lad and I married the friend who cared enough about someone else to engage in an unpleasant and awkward conversation. He is still the most decent and caring person I have ever met.

What utter garbage.

Firstly this woman wasnt "welcomed by the whole group", she was randomly added by a person in the group who no longer even speaks to her (I wonder why?!) or even attends the group.

Secondly it's not that she has one "flaw"- she's generally highly unpleasant person. This woman has not returned property that belongs to someone else which is essentially, stealing. She talks over people and makes everything all about her. She is mean, doesnt ever reciprocate lifts or offer to contribute towards petrol costs. She expects everyone to do whatever and whenever she wants regardless of how inconvenient it is to them.

Thirdly, noone has ostracised her (although she flipping deserves it) because everyone is apparently too scared that this woman will lash out and attack them on social media.

This woman is selfish and vile and she should not have joined a social group if she can't treat others in it with the consideration and respect that they deserve. If she is chucked out of the group she is merely reaping the consequences of her offensive behaviour.

Another example of the be nice conditioning. Just tell her she’s rude and a pita and she’s not welcome, remove from group.

OFGS.

Mean?

She is being very rude and ruining the group.

She deserves mean.

Tell her. If she apologises and does better then give her a chance. If she doesn't, start a new group

she wasn’t really welcomed into the group. She was added by someone without much discussion.
And as it’s an informal group there was no vote for admittance like there may be at many more formal groups.

there was no selection process for this person. Similarly, I’d expect a book group of strangers to let me know if I wasn’t playing by their informal rules (contribute, respect all opinions, read the book, attend most meetings per year)

Yes, she sounds highly entitled, but not ASD to me.

In fact a preoccupation with 'fairness' is an Autistic trait. It's literally in the diagnostic test. ASD women in particular can be overly concerned with reciprocity, so they are more likely to be overly generous than miserly. ASD adults are not good at being manipulative, we're far too blunt - and it takes a high level of social nuance to manipulate. Also as manners are part of the social code that high functioning ASD people can learn, we tend to use them!

She sounds highly entitled. Try being firm. It might work? And if she doesn't like not getting everything her own way, well she might leave, which is better than ghosting her.

I find this post interesting.

We regularly have threads on here from posters who have suddenly been ghosted by their friendship group, where they’ve found out the whole group organised an event and they weren’t invited, have set up a WhatsApp group without them, and the response is almost unanimously that “they’re not your friends. They’re all bitches and you’re better off without them.”

And yet here we have the friendship group’s perspective and likely those same posters are actively encouraging the OP to dump this woman on mass because she’s clearly the one in the wrong.

At the end of the day there is no way to dump this woman which isn’t going to be hurtful.

Maybe she is annoying, but has anyone told her that?

If people have been giving in to her for years does she know?

She was welcomed into a friendship group and now the group is turning on her being spurred on by the same women on the internet who would be telling this same woman that her friends are horrible.

Ultimately female friendship groups generally don’t work.

Far too much cattiness, bitching, being generally petty and exclusionary and yes, bullying.

The woman may have one flaw, and that has seen her ostracised seemingly without explanation.

There is fault on both sides, but the worst fault lies with the OP and her coven of mates who are too gutless to own their dislike of this woman.

Sending a passive aggressive ‘rules’ post is pretty lame and just kicks the can down the road, she know what she’s doing, just doesn't care. I’d go with organising stuff with the members of the group you enjoy the company of, phasing her right out, or setting up a new group without her in. Or just be blunt and say something, as so many on her advocate for - though I think in real life most people would choose the more avoidant option that result in less social confrontation.

I'd be getting in there first with asking for favours everytime. Susan, will you drive us this weekend? Susan, could you lend me x? Susan, can you be my physical crutch? Keep putting her in a situation where she's saying no. You won't feel half as bad about saying no after. Turn the tables, she'll learn fairly quickly.

What does she bring to the friendship group and hiking group?

if nothing positive cut her out, either by telling her or just remove her from the planning WhatsApp group.

Exactly. Rather just be left alone x

Because you’re not me.

Why? Why invite her at all? Ever?

This isn’t an official ‘group’ with membership and rules - it’s simply a group of friends arranging to meet up regularly. Just because she’s on a ‘group chat’ you don’t have to keep hanging out with someone who is a PITA. Whilst on the one hand yes it’s objectively a bit ‘mean’ to drop someone for the behaviour without giving them a chance to address it by telling them what the issue is, but on the other hand if you just happened to meet this person and would no doubt decide they’re not for you, you wouldn’t then continue hanging out with them. So just because your former hiking friend added them to this group chat, you don’t have to continue hanging out with this person in perpetuity - if they hadn’t been added to a group chat you wouldn’t have arranged subsequent meet ups with them. You don’t actually owe this person anything - just start a new watsap group chat without either of these people - no announcement, just casually start a new chat with the women who are actually your friends and arrange the next hike. Ok I know it’s kind of stone cold, but life really is too short to have hassle and spend your free time with someone you’re not actually friends with. We have to do enough of that at work!

I totally get this but not everyone has siblings and/or relatives

Life’s too short to spend any of it with people you don’t like. If you’re inwardly seething every time you go on a hike then it’s going to spoil your enjoyment.

In an ideal world, if the rest of you all feel the same, you’d dump her out of the group and tell her why.

But I can see why you wouldn’t want to do this. So set up a group without her and her friend, and fade the original group out.

Before you do that though, the person who she borrowed the stuff off should give her the next lift and tell her she’ll pick up the stuff from her at the same time. Then when she arrives to pick her up, tell her she’ll wait while she gets the stuff for her.

It’s difficult though, it’s easier and socially acceptable to end a romantic relationship, but much harder with a “friendship”.

Maybe not but it might bring the whole thing to a head? Ideally, she flounces out the group and the original hikers remain.

OP, you aren’t obliged to spend your spare time with someone you don’t like and have to “manage”.

Also this isn’t a young woman here - she’s not going to change her whole personality once her entitled ways are pointed out to her is she?

What is mean is not telling her OP and then everyone moaning about her behaviour.

You have a few options.

1 Pin group rules. Personally though o wouldn’t put the bit about everyone chatting. It does sound as though everyone has been chatting about her.

2 Put a message in the group as suggested above along the lines of not being comfortable with the idea of helping her and risking injury to yourself and it would probably be better if she resumed when she was better.

3 Removing Susan and her friend from the group.

4 Starting a new group without her.

I think I’d go with one and two together.

Also it is very common in groups when bad behaviour is called out that it is the messenger becomes the problem not the person behaving badly especially if they are prone to manipulating others which clearly this person has demonstrated the capacity for.

The problem is very few people can cope with sitting in the awkwardness that being up front and calling someone out brings!
You can only speak up for yourself, dont bring others into it. Just say no your not happy to do this. Let others do what they want, if they see you sticking up for yourself they may follow.