Teachers and TAs!

‘Oh and re TA/teaching - as I understand it, one often leads on to the other, especially as the former isn’t really making that much money? So I would be open to that transition and that’s why I’m interested in both.’

Not as easy as you make it sound and not often - unless the TA is a graduate or already has QTS ( yes some are).

More often TA’s, even those qualified see what it is really like in school, the workload teachers have and remain a TA!

You’re so right. You don’t notice it initially when a school is academized but slowly and surely, the toxicity creeps in .

One only leads to the other if you do teacher training. You have to be a qualified teacher to teach and earn the amounts you're talking about. (OK, not in some private schools, but in the majority).

Ok, if you think she’s right and everyone else is wrong, including all the teachers leaving the profession (which is a real problem) go for it 🤷‍♀️
If I just tell you the marking commitment for what I know - secondary English teacher (not suggesting this is higher than others, it’s just what I know). So I had a class in every year group (or equivalent) so that’s 7 classes. They would be any size from a handful at A level or with additional needs to 30+ for a higher set in other year groups. Let’s say on average I’d teach about 140 students a year. They would all do a substantial written piece each week plus smaller pieces which would need some attention. So each week, assuming a cursory 5 mins a book (that’s not possible by the way - a substantial piece at GCSE or A level would take 10-15 mins on its own, but to keep the hours conservative) is just over 11.5 hours per week. A more realistic view would be twice that. When doing GCSE or A level assessments, even higher. So that’s between 2 and 4 hours per weekday just on marking. Then there’s preparation, lesson planning, report writing, keeping record of grades, dealing with discipline and communicating with parents.

@NeedYourOpinion 50k? How long has she been teaching?
Most teachers I knew over my 21 year career worked more hours than that for less pay.
Also, teaching and TAing are very different jobs so not sure what you're asking?

@NeedYourOpinion Another thing I would say is make sure you are happy with the actual pay you will get. They do love to advertise as a ft equivalent, but of course no TA job has ft hours!!! It catches a lot of people out.

I started in the 80s. I absolutely believe you about your mum’s stress and tiredness but it has changed totally for the worse now. I’ve recently retired, but by the end I was dreaming about the halcyon days of the 80s.

You don’t in secondary either if you are doing it right. Secondary classes are just as variable year to year as primary ones.

Most TAs arrive 10 mins before school and leave 10 mins after. Some are paid to work lunchtime in addition. The pay is low though. Otherwise teachers would quit to become TAs. The job very much depends on the school you are in. Go in with a positive mindset - I think people are more likely to share bad experiences online. The ones who are happy in their job are not seeking out groups and forums to support them.

I was a TA for 25 years and I had many lovely and rewarding years working with children. You were sent on different courses and were considered a valuable asset.The teachers I worked with were supportive and some became good friends too. This was at my daughter’s Junior school so was perfect . Even when they left I was happy to remain as I liked talking to the children and helping them grasp new concepts.However the nature of the job changed. You were expected to almost become a teacher but without the qualifications or the pay. Children’s behaviour got worse and whereas before parents would say “ What did my child do?” Became “What have to done to my child?” Many times my teacher and I wished we could video their classroom behaviour. Add to that the physical and verbal abuse from children.
i worked in Year 6 and although there was a bit of big fish in a small pond they would usually come back to see us in their new uniforms and tell us we’d been right about secondary school!
I saw that the new year 6 were going to be challenging and decided I’d had enough. My pension from my original job in finance was able to be accessed so I decided to leave.
I still meet up with friends from school and from what they tell me I made the right choice.

I’d say it depends on the school and in particular the quality of the leadership.

One of my daughters is a teacher and absolutely loves it. The SLT is supportive and appreciative and any behaviour issues are well managed. The staff seem happy and teacher turnover is low. Most teachers seem to leave on promotion or because they are moving to a different area.

I also have a very good friend who is a teacher. Her school has poor behaviour and attendance. From what she tells me, the management was appalling last year. Staff turnover and sickness are very high. A new head started in September and seems to be slowly getting to grips with things, but there is still too much inconsistency and complacency.

Both work in secondary comprehensives that are part of an academy chain (different locations and different academy chains) but their experience couldn’t be more different.

On average you can expect to work (plus travel and a little down time for eating etc) 7am - 10pm M-F and a while day at the weekend. And you'll still never catch up.

It's shit. But the real losers from this are the children who aren't getting their needs met.

Teaching was (is) my vocation. I loved being in front of a class, was the best version of myself there.

However, teaching is a 70/80 hour a week job and with the very very best will and desire in the world, it is virtually impossible to do a good job.

This is almost exclusively NOT down to the children (some are shits of course, and behaviour is getting worse all the time) but due to work load, totally unreasonable and unrealistic management expectations and government pressure and lack of support (OFSTED anyone?).

One SINGLE example. A secondary teacher of a core subject will teach 5 or 6 classes of 30ish a day. 5 days a week. Probably amounts to 6 or 7 groups (e.g. one group will have a core subject 3 or 4 times a week). At the absolute minimum that will be around 180 children a week. Each exercise book will be expected to be marked AT LEAST once every 2 weeks. Each book will take 15-20 minutes. That is over 20 hours of marking a week. IF you do it all. Which is impossible. On top of 25 hours of teaching, planning, additional duties (before school duty, after school duty, break time duty), meetings (supposedly max 1 a week - more like 2 or 3), when on earth would you get 20 hours a week to mark those books? You're doomed to fail before you even start.

You have a job offer. Give it a try. Do you know what your role is? Most are now 1:1. Do you think you can sit with the same child each day if they are behavioural, physical etc? It’s draining emotionally and physically. Of course working with children can be rewarding too

My sister works in school she also does breakfast and after school club to top up her ridiculous wage.

It probably depends heavily on the school. My friend KS is a TA, she is expected to cover over lunch time a couple of times a week, she is in a mainstream primary but has to deal with SEN kids some of whom shouldn't be in mainstream. She gets kicked, spat at, attacked with no support from the headteacher. She is looking for another job. She's got a degree and could be earning more working in a supermarket

I left secondary teaching 2 years ago due to workload and behaviour but that’s not really relevant to primary TA posts. I have two friends who are primary TAs. One is trying to get out due to incompetent management and unreasonable demands, the other enjoys the job the years when the class is decently behaved and hates in when it’s a bad class. If you have a school where the behaviour is ok and TAs don’t do cover and they won’t just move you to 1:1 without giving you a choice, then it’s probably ok. Unlike teachers, you can just leave at the end of the school day.

Nah. The people I know who work those hours are in banking and earn probably £200k plus massive bonus and fully expect to burn out within 5 years, by which time they have financial security.

It used to make me laugh when the school had their Friday morning staff breakfast meetings. "Does she think this is fucking Wall St?!"

I'm a TA. I have a degree but many years ago decided not to do the Pgce as I didn't want the stress/workload that can come with teaching. I've been a TA for almost 19 years since my ds was 2 years old. It was brilliant for the school holidays, still is! I used to work 4 days then ft for the majority. However, for the past year I have only worked for 2 days per week due to ill health. I work with pupils aged 3-19 in a SEN school, but mostly with yp aged 14-19 and I really enjoy it. In SEN education pay is better, which reflects the more intense work involved in comparison to mainstream settings.

I'm a primary teacher. I can't understand why you lump teachers and TAs together in your question. They are completely different professions.