to ask this without expecting a backlash?

I’m also a 1978 child and I hear you

now my own child is being assessed for ADHD as are a significant number of other children I know.
dh is convinced that the covid lockdowns are relevant. But there was a big increase in ADHD and autism diagnosis in the previous years so it can’t be the only factor.

it’s something I wonder about. There must be other societal factors at play combined with improved understanding IMO.

ETA I know so many kids some kind of school refusal. And I know the parents and you certainly can’t blame them. Agree with you that that really wasn’t a thing back in the 1980s/1990s.

So what's changed? Is it just more well known now?

I was born in 1973 and don't know if anyone who had it in school. A couple of "naughty" kids maybe 🤔

I went to a school that was considered one of the best state primaries in the area in the 80s, and the difference between what we were taught and how to today's UK primaries is night and day. There was tons more singing, playing and crafts even into Juniors and we never had homework. Learning seemed very hodgepodge and there were many things that were taught that if you didn't pick up, then that was that really. (I've never learnt long division but was able to get through GCSE maths okay)
Also up to the 90s there were a lot more jobs you could just walk into as a teen, for example a greengrocer's assistant or a driver's mate, or trainee hairdresser etc if you hated school. A lot would have been cash in hand.
I'm supposed to be working so haven't RTFT sorry, but also just to add, massive comps weren't really a thing everywhere before New Labour. The first state secondary I went to was from 10-14 and had about 400 pupils. There were lots of little private schools about too that didn't cost a ton. We had one near us that my mum scathingly implied that that where was all the 'naughty' kids in our middle class area went to.
So lots of kids today that struggle today may have faired better in the smaller more relaxed schools I went to, but conversely, kids like my brother would do better today as he had poor executive function skills that was just seen as a personal failing back then, but would be supported now.

Sorry if this has already been shared, but there's a fascinating article here with Uta Frith - who is a neuroscientist whose work has defined much of the way Autism and ADHD is understood today. Even she says now that the spectrum idea has become too inclusive and is capturing people with a diagnosis that perhaps isn't really appropriate.

Here's the link to the article

I'm in my 60s. There were always school refusers, except we called it truant. There were remedial classes and they were separated from mainstream. On the whole we have much better understanding now. .

This thread is eye opening.

It’s lots of things. I think a lot of modern life makes it worse - as a child of the 70’s you could chill with a book, go for a walk, escape. But now everything is so fast, 24/7, screens, kids tv - cartoons go at 100mph with loud music, shouty presenters. Kids can’t leave the house unaccompanied until they are teenage. The world has speeded up so much and I think this all contributes.
Along with softer parenting, I think many kids used to thrive on a strict routine where they know what to expect.
Also I believe there is a link to parents being older. In the 70’s most parents would have been 20 somethings.

And the really severe ND kids I guess were institutionalised rather than being in mainstream schools.

If that's what you've taken away from that thread then I don't really know how to address that.

The OP's ADHD has caused her to have bad credit and be unable to apply for a mortgage. The thread is about the severity of the impact of the symptoms. unsurprisingly, people with a diverse range of severity of impacts are replying, because that's how people behave on a forum.

"and that's before masking, which means that you don't even need to have any symptoms (sic)..." - People - women, in particular, can often mask neurodiversity very well. I can assure you that it isn't a lack of symptoms, rather that they've developed a range of coping strategies to be able to manage their symptoms. I'm only sometimes late now, because I'm aware of my own inability to accurately estimate how long something will take, and of the passage of time. I have alarms on my phone every 15 minutes in the morning, and many of them are labelled with things like "Teeth should be cleaned by now" and "leave the house in the next 5 minutes" and "Absolute latest time to leave the house by". I cope with that aspect of my brain (mostly), but that doesn't mean that I don't have a disorder that makes my executive functioning around timekeeping harder than the average NT person finds it.

And that the hyperactivity can be hyperactivity of brain activity and attention, rather than physical energy... oh look suddenly that means that a lot of women and girls who have been struggling their whole lives might just have an explanation... (sarcasm due to being bitter that sex inequality permeates even this)

There is a thread running just now where poster is asking about 'extreme' ADHD behaviours and recieves a list of typical, textbook symptoms such as often forgetting things or often reacting impulsively, as well as random non specific ones such as skin picking. And that's even before we get to masking so little to no symptoms at all being considered as evidence too.

"The criteria for autism and ADHD now are so broad and flexible as to fit almost anyone, especially with the catch-all caveats that '"some people may present with few or no symptoms" or "not all symptoms manifest in the same way" etc etc."

This is not true. There is simply a recognition that just because someone isn't climbing up the side of a warehouse and setting fire to it, it doesn't mean they aren't hyperactive, and that hyperactivity can exist in a micro sense rather than a macro sense.

If you ever take a look at a homeschooling Facebook site, there is a terrible drive for parents to deregister their children and home educate. Even parents who clearly lack literacy skills or suitable home-life are being encouraged to take the plunge. Many of the children are school avoiders already and then the parents are surprised that they also won’t engage in the education that they are providing at home and consequently it looks like there are a number of children at home doing absolutely nothing of much benefit.

There are clearly more issues in schools at the moment - behaviour being a big one. More support staff are needed and this needs to be addressed urgently to ensure those children and the rest of the class are able to learn.

DD3 got her EHCP with no diagnosis. She got PIP with only one of her 3 diagnoses. It's about need, not diagnosis.

@surrealpotato No, I object strongly to the claim that "the criteria are now so broad and flexible that they fit almost anyone". Diagnosis is still difficult to obtain, especially for women.

Our understanding of what counts as neurodiversity has broadened. That inevitably means that more people than we previously realised, are ND.

Is it not possible for someone to be dysfunctional in school, disruptive, easily distracted, or otherwise a bit 'weird', or different, without it being something to be 'diagnosed'??

Yes of course. Children can behave like that and still be within normal expected metrics. We understand better now though, that behaviour isn't just random, it happens for a reason. Every action that every human takes, is because that human is trying to meet a need or a want. It's perfectly possible that an entirely NT child with a good upbringing and no trauma will act out in class occasionally due to boredom. If they are acting out more often than average, it is worth wondering why that is.

There are a multitude of reasons why someone might be any or all of those things, including upbringing, personality, temperament, trauma experiences, etc.

Yes. And if that child is presented for assessment for autism or another ND, these things will be looked for and their contribution to the behaviours taken into account.

Some parents at our school push for a diagnosis. They tell their child that they have adhd / autism (before a diagnosis) and the children then consider (and use) it as justification for their behaviour.

I don’t believe this would have happened in the past and in fact parents probsbly wouldn’t want to label their child.

Behaviour across eyfs / ks1 and up to y3/4 is pretty poor in many schools. Some children are not receiving adequate parenting and often are left on tablets / phones as an easy option. Labelling a child as adhd / autism is easier for parents than admit to their failings.

Lots of posters saying 'it was there but unrecognised'. That may be partly true, though I doubt that's the main reason diagnoses are increasing.

I can't help but notice that people are very quick to label anyone they knew who was in any way dysfunctional as being probably 'undiagnosed' ND.

Is it not possible for someone to be dysfunctional in school, disruptive, easily distracted, or otherwise a bit 'weird', or different, without it being something to be 'diagnosed'??

There are a multitude of reasons why someone might be any or all of those things, including upbringing, personality, temperament, trauma experiences, etc.

The criteria for autism and ADHD now are so broad and flexible as to fit almost anyone, especially with the catch-all caveats that '"some people may present with few or no symptoms" or "not all symptoms manifest in the same way" etc etc.

But yes, YABU to expect to ask this question on MN and not get firestormed. There are many who are truly invested in this.

@Fleurflowering

When we had anything to do with DSs schooling it was treated much more firmly.

The "truancy officer" would turn up to discuss the problem and reminded us that if we did not get them to school we could be taken to court and imprisoned. !!

That still applies although of course rare.

On occasions the TO would turn up and physically take children to school in car!

Unbelievable isn't it by today's "gentle" standards. Both DC went on to get degrees as adults.

"Difficult" children were often sent to some form of special schools or expelled/excluded with little effort to reintegrate them

I clearly remember two brothers in primary school (early-mid 80s) who used to run wild, throw chairs at the headmistress, you name it. Today they'd absolutely be labelled autistic. Back then they were the boys that we were all told would never amount to anything and to keep well away from. They both also used some really filthy racist language which I remember being really baffled at, and can only assume they learned it at home. If I recall, they were brought up by a relative as the parents weren't around.

This was really rare behaviour though, and no excuses were made.

Yes I do think it's all very much over-diagnosed these days, with some parents using it as a downright excuse for bad behaviour - my neighbour's girlfriend for one. She lets her kids regularly trample on neighbours' flowers, rampage through people's gardens, throw balls at cars, and then it's "THEY CAN'T HELP IT, THEY HAVE ADHD AND AUTISM, SO FUCK OFF" if you dare say anything.

There used to be ESN schools, so some pupils were educated entirely separately.

My cousin was one of those pupils, & he did very well in the smaller classes, plus I don't think he would have coped in a mainstream school.
I do wonder whether integration was best for all pupils.

I grew up in the 80's and now I think I'd be diagnosed with ADHD, one teacher described me in a school report as individual to the point of eccentricity! There were also a couple of kids who were just seen as naughty who obviously had something else going on. I'd be very surprised if they were no 'weird', 'naughty' or disruptive kids in your class that would now be recognised as struggling.
As a parent to an ADHD and autistic DS I'm pleased there is more support and understanding around!

I agree there was that too. The difference was we we ruled through fear and humiliation so yes we desperately tried to be normal/ under the radar. Not great for mental health though.

I was born in the 80s. There was a lad in my school year that quite clearly had ADHD teachers loved him he was a character but he was undiagnosed and couldn’t apply himself at all.

We also had the first autistic child join our year in secondary he managed quite well but his difficulties were clear.

I was also one of the first students at the school with a disability but mine was physical only

I don’t think there was LESS neurological diversity then just that it was spoken of in a very different way, with language now seen, rightly, as regressive and offensive

DLA / PIP claims are more likely to be granted if you have an official diagnosis. This has surely fuelled the increased diagnosis.

There definitely were school refusers, I was one of them. Born in 74.

If I were at school now there’s every chance I’d be diagnosed autistic. Shame it wasn’t picked up all those years ago.

This.

In my class at state primary school I can think of one who might have had ADHD but at the time he was of below average intelligence and a bit fidgety and poorly behaved. Nothing like the behaviours you get now though.

In my state comp secondary school I can't even think of one in my class who had anything beyond being less intelligent than the class average. There was one girl who was frequently absent. There were perhaps three or four boys in the year group who were characterised as trouble makers.

In the year below there was one girl with anorexia.