Are we setting autistic children up to fail?

That's an interesting article.

I wonder if Uta has considered that by the 90s, and certainly by the 00s that institutions were largely closed down and certainly all closed down by the 00s, and so parents felt safer coming forward with their children's struggles and wanted to understand them better without the fear or stigma of having their children removed from their care.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/uta-frith-interview-autism-not-spectrum

Well I'd like to offer a different perspective.

I am autistic, and therefore was an autistic child. I am late diagnosed, although all the signs were there from being a child.

I didn't get extra support.

I entered the workforce, and for the first few years also didn't get support.

Then I was diagnosed, and I asked for support but by then my support needs were far too significant for a workplace to reasonably accommodate.

I had experienced a significant skill regression. I didn't know it was possible to lose skills you have automatically acted upon most of your life but I did.

The fact is no amount of early support will stop autism being a disability. It might lessen the impact, it might sustain someone for longer, but if you're autistic you will always be autistic. Removing social scaffolding early doesn't create resilience it creates trauma.

We will always have some social, communication and interaction deficits that make the corporate working world a nightmare for us. Our facial expressions might not match our feelings, our tone might not match our words, we might be less verbal, or overly verbal as we outwardly process information and that can be very grating for others to cope with, we might need to understand why something needs to be done in order to do it as opposed to just being told what to do and this can be seen as a challenge on authority or not respecting hierarchies, simply because we are bottom up thinkers, we might have sensory issues that cause us daily discomfort that others around us cause and insist it is for their comfort that they must, like lighting and music and windows being open or closed or eating smelly foods, or uniform policies that make no sense or presenteeism for the sake of presenteeism. It might be communication going off script and needing extra time for processing information with imposed deadlines that you just can't meet with the high pressure.

There's nothing you can do to an autistic child by adding or removing that social scaffolding that makes the working world more tolerable, but by keeping support in place when they are children, you're significantly reducing trauma which allows them time to gain skills that could benefit them later in life.

My 20 year old son is autistic and has given up trying to find work. He just claims UC and pip and volunteers at a charity shop which he's done since it was part of a college course.dhile he was looking for work he rarely got interviewed and once or twice an employer would ring up to offer him an interview but either he didn't understand them or got confused (if this happened while I wasn't with him). The charity work suits him as there's no pressure or expectations and they all love him there

This. I think you're asking the wrong question OP

No, i think supportive workplaces need to be more common.

I have Autism, spent my young adult years in supported living.

I found an employer that is a saint and truly adapts the workplace. The key is, what makes it accessible for me..actually makes it easier for those without additional needs too.
So everyone is happier as the hybrid working, flexible contracts, support is down to the individual needs whether they have a disability or not. The aim is to make the individual execute their role to the best of their ability..and the more comfortable and supported they feel the better the results.

We are completely adapted building wise too, I have colleagues who have mobility issues, so have stairlifts for wheelchairs.

Thats the thing though, I don't know why we are so rigid with workplaces as i don't think they actually serve anyone, even those without SEN, they just grin and bottle it.

My colleague has no SEN but the difference adaptions have made for them too is very noticeable..its a happier environment over all.. From a business perspective, less staff turnover, lowering sickness rates, hitting targets..so it is profitable to actually have more content employees 🤷‍♀️

Yes we had the lead CAMHs psych tell us our DD’s severe and expensive MH difficulties were hugely due to dire provision in school. She then experienced severe CPSD as a result of her difficulties and treatment which made things even worse. Ironically provision would have been cheap and easy to do. Now she is at a college with excellent SEND provision she is thriving and has pushed herself in so many ways. She will also get qualifications that will enable her to start contributing to society.

I do think the OP asks an important question. I guess this is what the current SEND review is implying although with a more financial skew: we spend billions on Send provision without any meaningful narrowing of the gap in educational outcomes or life chances between those with Sen and those without. Case control matched children (same level of attainment in year 6) in special schools also do worse than thise with Sen in mainstream. Of course educational outcomes aren’t the only factor but they obviously have an impact on life chances.
as the parent of a child with asd who had a tough time at school, was refused an ehcp which we didn’t have the mental energy to fight at the time, I just think there are no “fixes”.
my experience as an employer however of managing employees who had self diagnosed with asd, sent rude emails, refused to do some sort of work and frequently went off sick, all of which were supported as per HR, stood in stark contrast to what was accepted behaviour by the school of my son - which is perhaps a different perspective to that outlined in the thread.
my son is doing ok in a work environment, I am so proud of him and he is incredibly “resilient” although I do hate that word but maybe because he has had to be and my heart also breaks for what he has experienced - which may or may not have been better with an ehcp. We can’t as parents ever know the other path trodden and we are all just trying to do our best in what can be such an exhausting process where you always blame yourself for not doing that, or doing that when you should have done something else.

Comparisons are hugely difficult due to varying definitions and methods of reporting across countries.

Also this thread is about autism.

My autistic DD went to a lovely primary school where she was very well supported and then a huge comprehensive with not much SEN support. She had a breakdown at 13 and was so mentally ill she could hardly function. It was horrific to be honest. I would therefore argue that the extra support was v necessary for her. Fortunately we managed to find a v nurturing school after that and she was v mollycoddled there which essentially nursed her back to health. She is now at a regular small college with some SEN support but is coping better thank goodness. I do worry about how she will cope with a job though. Any amount of pressure and she crumbles. Maybe that would have been the case regardless but she is very used to special treatment. Am not saying she doesn’t need it but I do know she won’t get it in the workplace and I really worry everything will go wrong again. I don’t know the answer.

Didn't say it was.

SEN diagnoses are through the roof compared to other European countries.

SEND includes everything from high medical needs; additional support for reading, writing, maths, phonics etc; disabilities; MH;conditions such as adhd, autism, dyspraxia, sensory processing, dyslexia etc

That figure is not just autism!🙄

17% of children need SEN support in school https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/special-educational-needs-in-england/2024-25

That's not underdiagnosis.

Yes agree that some of this comes down to parents and whether they are seeking genuine support for their child or if they just want what everyone else gets.
We went through a phase of classrooms being like toy shops - so many children with fidget toys. If you took them away the parents were straight in with the my child needs this and other children have them so why can't mine.
Chewies is the latest. They seem to have become a fashion accessory in some year groups.
And the non uniform for sensory reasons also becomes a choice for some children. Some who are unable to wear the uniform will come in plain items where the parent has tried to match the school colours or at least kept it simple with dark colours. Some turn up in various items - usually designer, various materials, which does make you question whether it is a sensory need or just they don't want to wear the uniform (which primary school generally accept, secondary don't, therefore parents create a problem for themselves).

I think in general kids used to be raised to understand that "life is tough but so are you" and that this tolerance for discomfort is less present today. I think it's really really important that we bring it back.

But I don't think we should bring back this attitude for autism specifically or only. Support is probably needed (and the kind thing to do), in addition to this general tolerance for discomfort.d

The bar is high to get an autism diagnosis and difficult to get one-hence our low diagnosis rates particularly in women and girls.

Incorrect again-our autism rates are 1 in 100, lower than USA and similar to other developed countries.

It’s hugely underdiagnosed in women and girls and wait lists are insane so it’s very difficult to get a diagnosis. Private is £3k so out of most people’s pockets.

Re adhd the recent government taskforce highlighted how underdiagnosed adhd is in the uk too.

www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

Something can be "underdiagnosed" if you've widened the diagnostic criteria to a point where a huge proportion of normal human behaviours are included.

Nothing in my post is incorrect. Diagnostic criteria have been widened hugely (read about it, its interesting) and it is much easier to get a diagnosis now than it was 30 years ago.

Yet we have a higher diagnosis rate than almost any other country? Pull the other one.

Incorrect it’s well known to be underdiagnosed in this country.

The bar is high to get a ND diagnosis the sheer proportions of children getting them in recent years indicates that it isnt. Its much easier to get one now than it was in the 90s, the diagnostic criteria were broadened significantly in the DSM IV and V.

It's possible the your DC would have fared better if they'd been diagnosed earlier, but not a guarantee. My DS was diagnosed at 11 and still experienced serious MH breakdown in year 10/11. The trigger was years of social difficulties and low level bullying. The school were brilliant about making reasonable adjustments and catering to his needs, but the other kids were just arseholes, sadly.

I do feel for parents with SEND children not only because it adds extra challenges to parenting but it must be so hard to see school being so challenging. A different solution must be found to support kids thought surely with the number of children needing support 18k per child along with the normal schooling costs is completely unaffordable and unsustainable? It’s not wonder schools are ‘failing’ to provide this within their budgets it’s hardly their fault.

It isnt just about school and workplaces.

Whatever our challenges are we have to learn to manage with them, makes choices to minimise stress etc but also accept & tolerate sometimes not having everything perfect for us because we live, work & function in groups.

Autism in particular can be perceived externally as highly selfish/with less consideration for the feelings or needs of others. This doesn't mean all people with asd must by default be "given a pass" for intolerant behaviours, it means they need extra help as they grow up to do the best they can, and tolerance (throughout life) from the people around them of what they struggle with.

In recent years I think the trend of "low demand" has been quite damaging in having very low expectations for people with ASD and their ability to learn gradually to accept/tolerate some situations they find difficult and build habits that might better prepare them for adult life. "Reasonable adjustments" have to be "reasonable".

For example another child I teach wlhas an EHCP target worded something like "by the end of Y9 X should have 1 in 5 positive interactions with adults and their peers".

20% of the time not being rude is the target. How is that OK?