Or are young people becoming increasingly insular/scared/lacking in motivation and drive?

It’s 100% the devices. I have covid era DC a little older and they are the opposite of yours, very motivated and lots of interests. They’ve always done sport and clubs after schools and went to schools where phones were banned during the school day. So they never had time to form a big habit. So sorry to sound boastful and I do empathise with you. They have friends who are similar to your DC, maybe less extreme, and they are the ones who have always been hooked on their devices. I think in future generations the wealth divide will be influenced massively by this factor. My DD says her kids won’t have phones because she’s seen the damage they do to people’s social skills.

My DD did Camp America the summer before uni and it was great. No phones allowed and lots of activities with really positive, outdoorsy Americans. It was exhausting but great for her confidence. Also volunteering abroad schemes or backpacking might jerk them out of it.

Remove / severely restrict the devices if you can (easier said than done) and make absolutely sure nobody is smoking weed.

I mean, are you ambitious and confident? It has to be modelled.

That said, late teens are a rough time. I was that age in the mid 90s. No COVID. No social media back then. I definitely panicked and changed my mind about things. I dropped out of a very good school. I refused to go to a really good uni.

Frankly, I was just going through a lot of stuff and I didn’t have particularly supportive parents to help me through it.

By the way, as an adult, I’m very ambitious. I got a PhD. I’ve travelled and worked all over the world. Really confident, can speak in front of 100s of people. I’m not 16 anymore and I eventually got the support I needed back then.

I don’t recognise this in my dc, their friends, my nieces and nephews and the numerous other young people I know. DD’s sports club is full of teens who train to a high level, do well in school, go on holidays, school trips etc.

You sound like you feel you’ve lost your way with the eldest?

remember all the good parenting you did when they were small is still there as a foundation ❤️ so many families have struggled to get to normal after Covid.

would you be comfortable with a tougher approach with the eldest? Maybe only offer to pay half the phone bill and tell them they need to sort the rest?

our nephews didn’t like the idea of traditional work as a young person but instead buy things from the local car boot and flip them on eBay, does the eldest have a special interest that would facilitate that?

teaches some soft skills with potential buyers as well as meeting shipping deadlines and managing cashflow!

You aren't the only one OP. I have to battle to encourage my ds to do things, I'd have taken someone's hand off for when I was 17. He loves it when he finally gets there but gosh, it's hard work.

Ds is getting better but I find myself having to give reassurance that I would expect more from a 12yo. Planting an idea in his head and then giving him 6 weeks to think about it seems to be the best approach.

Screens are ruining peoples lives. They are altering the chemicals in developing brains and causing all kinds of issues around socialisation, anxiety and depression. People are losing interest in the world because they are constantly seeking the dopamine hit they get from non stop images and videos.

The invention of the smart phone was a disaster for mankind. I truly believe that.

I totally agree with this!

can you start small OP?

can you start building their confidence and problem solving at home? I think cooking and food shopping is an easy assessable one?

maybe tell them they are responsible for feeding the family next weekend! Give them a budget and let them work it out for themselves, going to the shop choosing things, cooking it etc

sounds silly but I really believe that kids who contribute to the running of a household really gain a sense of importance and confidence

Honestly OP - consider the part time job thing!

I came from a well off family, privately educated and my parents insisted I got a job at 14, I washed dishes in an adult education centre one night a week!
Best thing they ever did for me, gave me skills I could never gain in school.

Are you ok with them living with you into adulthood?

There's a big movement of adult children staying with parents in the family home and it sounds as if your children would prefer that. Lots of parents on MN prefer it as well. People cite financial pressures but I don't think we can rule out that these generations simply prefer smaller lives, living at home, talking to friends online, and not feeling pressured to perform academically or in a career.

It's a different mindset from previous generations, more focused on safety and avoiding discomfort.

I don't have children and know bugger all about this but perhaps if children didn't have access to screens they would become bored enough to get motivated.

If you can be entertained in your own bedroom constantly, why do anything.

When I was a teen having nothing else to do was what got me off my arse and out.

Mine aren’t like this at all. And it sounds like they would have been fairly young during the covid years? So would have been less of an impact I would have thought (mine were 11/12 and I think we got away with it quite lightly - much older and would have been even worse)
Phones are a real issue - do you know what they’re watching a lot of the time?

I think it can be a bit daunting as a child though. I’ve done lots of travelling as an adult but would have been nervous as a teen.

Kids can also be very aware of money, if you’re talking about saving up or getting a discount they might be worried that you’re spending a lot of money on them and it can feel like a lot of pressure.

None of what you’re describing sounds that different for me or people I knew at school 20 years ago.

Hobbies? Meh teens can lose interest, particularly if you realise you’re not that good at it. Lots of people go through phases and pick things up again when older.

You are being unreasonable

What are you going to do about the child that is refusing to go and what age are they ?