To think Keir Starmer has set us up to be the target of war strikes?

OP here are two names for you to google and make some observations:
Dr Cinderella Nonoo Cohen
Dr Rahmeh Aladwan

Yes, it was interesting to see how the US commentators (even RW commentators) viewed the situation compared to UK.

I can even half-forgive him appointing Mandelson. Obviously with hindsight it was a rotten decision. Just as obviously, he will have known he was dodgy (everyone does), but the White House wanted him, he recognised the importance of the relationship, he possibly felt he was the only person who could manage Trump, and that on balance it was worth the risk.

I mean, blatantly it wasn't, but that politics.

Sorry, I digress.

Quite. I think his problems are

(i) as a centrist, he finds it difficult to convey what he stands for
(ii) he lacks the charisma of a thatcher, blair, cameron or Johnson
(iii) the right wing media holds sway and attacks him relentlessly
(iv) a handful of policy cock-ups/U turns that have undermined credibility

Beyond that, I think he's a capable human being, trying to do the right thing in decent circumstances.

With foreign policy, (i) is an irrelevance, (ii) becomes a strength, (iii) is a different set of dynamics as far as the Mail and Telegraph is concerned, so he gets a break, and (iv) he's managed not to cock up, possibly because he has more experienced advisors around him.

But yes, he's doing a cracking job on the world stage, in very difficult and unuusal times.

Certianly not a 'dick' fgs.

Agree.

I'm certainly no big fan of Starmer and his premiership so far, but I think he is handling this crisis well. Correct decision to not go into Iran. I'm not convinced the long term planning be it defeat of Iran or stalemate with the status quo of the Iran RG remaining has really been thought through by the US and Israel. In that regard, I think the UK is best staying out of this one.

I mean, I saw the horrendous massacre of Iranian protestors in January and Iranians begging for help, and I wished that something could be done to help them.

So now help has come, and the Iranians are dancing in the streets I’m certainly not grabbing a ‘Hands Off Iran’ placard and going out and protesting that the Iranian regime should have been allowed to simply continue their slaughter of innocents.

Some people, however, are so wedded to the idea that Israel are the worst country on Earth and it was them that bombed Iran, (who incidentally also hate Israel), that they think the morally correct course of action is to condemn this intervention and protest it in the face of the Iranians who had been begging for it. Tbf some of them are also condemning Trump, but you can even see on this thread Netanyahu being singled out.

And to justify this, they’re having to blatantly ignore the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents, and big up the ludicrous idea that Iran really could be trusted when it comes to their claims that they don’t really want nukes.

Everything is so complex in 2026. Saving women means killing other women. Sigh. It's exhausting. And the ME most of all.

Of course it is but for some there is no room for nuance and as @noblegiraffe says her mind is closed and no one can change it.

I think the issues are rather more complicated than this polarised, ad hominem/feminam nonsense, don't you?

People are uncritically spouting the talking points of the Iranian regime uncritically, even on this thread.

And don't try and persuade me that the concern for international law and Iran peaceful nuke talks that is preoccupying the same people who have been marching on the streets calling for a global intifada against Israel, praising the Hamas 'resistance', cheering on the Houthis for attacking shipping aren't connected.

And this sort of black and white nonsense is the whole problem with discussion on this. Either you support an illegal war or you are 'taking the side of the regime'. That's what it comes back to over and over again. It's absolutely juvenile.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that, but there are other innocents involved and l don’t think compassion for their situation is unwarranted.

I am worried about the exit strategy for Iranians. I hope that's plain enough.

Yeah I'm not getting the 'it's obviously a good thing that Khamenei's dead but I'm worried about the exit strategy' vibe when people say bollocks like 'Iran was innocently in discussions about how it definitely doesn't want nukes when this totally unprovoked attack happened'.

When we "helped" Iraq with regime change between half a million and a million Iraqis died. If Iran's current leaders murder 50,000 of its citizens a year it would still take 10-20 years before it equalled that number and a lot can happen in that time. Maybe that's why some of us are a little hesitant.

I'm not optimistic because I see the Iranian people being slaughtered in the streets in the tens of thousands by the Iranian regime the people begging for help, and when help arrives, supposed 'progressives' who would generally consider themselves 'good people' who would normally condemn mass slaughter of innocents taking the side of the regime and saying that the people shouldn't have any help.

They probably now wished they had had them, but that is by the by. By the way if the war starts to stagnate I would not be surprised if Israel uses a nuke to help move things along.

I am not optimistic, not because I believe that more war is inevitable, but because I look at so called leaders in the West and I see lightweights and windbags who have no idea how to navigate the current flux in the world order

Wasn't the FIFA one enough for him? 😂

They were "negotiating" with Iran last week, and according to the mediators progress was being made

Yeah, Iran doesn't really want nukes and all that super-enriched uranium is just for fun.

I don't know if you've noticed the news of Russia, China, North Korea and Iran increasingly working together, making their plans. Or the news about conscription being brought in in some European countries along with civilian preparedness plans. Or the increases in defence spending. But if you think that peace negotiations are anything other than a holding pattern while they get their pieces in place, I wish I shared your optimism/naivety.

I just don't think a US president should have free resign to kill people. Whether that's using his ICE forces to kill those who disagree with his immigration policies, or the airforce to kill foreign leaders. Once you accept a US president can kill who they like where does it stop. It's very Putinesque.

Completely right. The US has rapidly become one of the least Trustworthy or international partners. With their trigger happy commander in chief and unstable economic policies with regard to tariffs.

With regard to trustworthiness in international negotiations, I think it is the US who have come off worst. They were "negotiating" with Iran last week, and according to the mediators progress was being made - then; war. That is bad faith. Same in Venezuela - negotiations, then violence. Bad faith.

I am not a cheerleader for Iran, I am just pointing out that the US is out of control and what is the message this behaviour is sending? No point in negotiating with the US, at best they will tear up any agreement within a few years or more likely start bombing before the biscuit crumbs have been cleared from the negotiation room table. So where does that leave us with Russia, China, Greenland, Cuba, N Korea etc?

Yes, but there are plenty more options. No Starmer does not equal Reform or Tories.
Starmer has lost far too much of voter's confidence.
I think he is good at international affairs. Likely because on that it will be what the Intelligence and Army tells him, right?
But look at what he did with Mandelson.....
I support him on what he is doing regarding this war. But I wish Labour had chosen other leader.

If the Iranian people manage to overthrow the Iranian regime

Probably not the best time to remember classical history and the Spartan reply to Philip II. Too elitist.