To think it will be revealed WLI cause physical aging

I agree with this. Several people have said to me since i
lost weight that they didn’t think I was very overweight before. But I was, I’m 5’6 and was wearing a size 16/18 and was 14 1/2 stone. My starting BMI was 33. I’m now 2 stone lighter and wearing a size 14 and my BMI is 28 but people are telling me how thin I am! I’m technically still overweight.

I’m not aiming for a low BMI as I do genuinely have a large frame, nothing less than a 14 will ever fit me on the shoulders. Maybe BMI 26. But I realise now that I was very very fat before. People’s perception of weight and what is healthy has become skewed.

I'd agree sizes aren't always relevant because there's so much vanity sizing going on. But to say that a "size 14/16" is "barely even overweight" isn't true and that's the point I was making. Looking at someone who is an "average" size doesn't mean that average is healthy. I didn't have to "squeeze into" those sizes, I wasn't in denial, they literally all fit me. But I also wasn't in denial that I was obese. But there seems to be the assumption that these "average" size 14/16 people shouldn't qualify for WLI but the absolute vast majority would.

Also, I was saying that a BMI of 37.7 wasn't just obese. It was bordering on morbidly obese.

Yes so many people can’t identify a healthy weight now. So it stands to reason they can’t identify obesity either, most people a size 16 will be in the obese or overweight category, unless very tall. Sure some outliers, but as a general yard stick they likely are. And many would say oh but they are just a bit chubby,

same for low end of a healthy weight, I’ve lost count of the amount of clearly healthy weight model images posted where someone thinks they are underweight and some posters agree.

as two thirds of the population now are overweight, it’s very difficult for people to judge it on appearance. There is also the mental health impact where they don’t want to think someone is obese as they are the same size, or they don’t want to think that the model is a healthy weight, as what does it say about them.

i saw a thread a while ago, where the poster proclaimed at a size 18 she was a healthy weight, as she was just one size above average, for her average meant a healthy weight. But average is overweight to obese.

at a size 16 I was obese, toppling into the bmi 30 range, and at an 18 I was a 32 bmi, as im quite tall I’d say most people would have said at a 16 I was a bit chubby, I wasn’t.

I think sizes are completely irrelevant. I have friends who squeeze into sizes that just don't fit imo; they still think they "are" that size, even though with their shape I would choose one or two sizes larger. Plenty of people have their stomach spilling over their jeans. Meanwhile my mum buys every top to cover her hips, so gets some ridiculously large sizes for her relatively slim frame.

37.7 BMI is definitely obese.

Losing weight quickly has always resulted in saggy skin.

Even being slightly overweight is bad for your health (with the exception of frail older adults where it may be helpful)

Have a look at the Stanford studies on this.

It points to skewed methodologies that have tended to lump overweight and obese in the same category. In fact, they challenge the suggestion that overweight, especially at the lower end of a BMI overweight bracket, does have these impacts.

Agree - someone up the thread talks about women with size 14/16 "mum bods" and how they were barely even overweight.

I had one of those size 14/16 bodies. And, being fairly tall at 5'8" , I probably carried it better than shorter people. Yet my starting weight when I was a size 16 was 17st 10lbs. My BMI was 37.7. That's not "barely even overweight" that's not far off morbidly obese. I was also obese at a size 14 and now, as a size 12, I'm technically still a few pounds overweight.

Agree we really need to move away from subjective perceptions of chubbiness. They're no help at all. They certainly aren't a valid barometer of obesity.

Maybe read your link. And you will it shows zero evidence for the comment that was being challenged.

Zero.

the problem is the societal perception of what is 'healthy' or 'overweight' is now totally skewed because most of the population is overweight. Someone you perceived as 'chubby' was very possibly obese, and definitely would be overweight. Even being slightly overweight is bad for your health (with the exception of frail older adults where it may be helpful)

I also don’t feel it should be standard as it has a cost, I genuinely don’t need it, I’m fully aware and knowledgeable on what to eat, what a healthy diet is, and what work outs are required. I have no need to have check ins and consultations on my journey.

my understanding is most fat people have tried unsuccessfully to lose weight and keep it off for years before starting these jabs, and most know fully what to do, sure there is a small proportion who don’t, and the additional help is available to them if they require it.

plus as a pp said, the info is all over the internet anyway,

Ffs

I'd rather have the option of buying it as an additional service as it would just push the price up for a service I don't need (and you say you don't either). My provider has live updates, nutrition information, free access to Nutrable, a support forum and a website. I can book in with a pharmacist for £5. I really don't see what else would help.

I don’t - I was commenting on the fact others might but that it’s not a standardised offer, and maybe it should be.

I found the plastic surgeon article, it as in glamour magazine. It was specifically talking about face lifts and reduction in facial fat and muscle causing more sagging and harder surgeries. Totally anecdotal and I couldn’t see any studies or science to back it up, just the opinions of plastic surgeons. However it looks like there could be some truth to the assertion but it’s more to do with muscle loss, which could be seen potentially in other forms of extreme weight loss. Who knows? Until it is studied properly it is hard to gauge

If you feel you need extra support there's a list of pharmacies that provide it at https://monj.co.uk/mounjaro-support-help-providers/ .

I get what you’re saying too. I think there should be far more accountability in the market. The market seems to be responding to the non-obese people wanting the drug to lose weight when they are already a healthy BMI but they want to get skinnier by asking for photos in real time. It is scandalous how easy you can get these drugs without any personal contact. But, it’s a private free market. I’m a fellow fattie who like you did loads of research and am well educated and connected so I’m actually getting support from professionals who happen to be close friends. And Mumsnet groups are supporting me. And, to be blinking honest, Mumsnet support got me through years of infertility, IVF and raising my twins on my own and were far more helpful than 95% I encountered on my “journey”. Never under-estimate the power of the sisterhood or enlightened women, please.

As I said, I don’t feel I do need it right now - I’ve done years of various bootcamps and coaching to give me the basics. I’ve just been surprised at the lack of oversight so far. My comment was in the context of the wider theme of this thread, whether there are sufficient support and safeguards for those who might need it and are there likely to be longer term consequences to health if there aren’t? Maybe those will all be cancelled out by the benefits of weightloss 🤷‍♀️

Longevity alone or longevity of health. Two different things which sometimes overlap.

As a nation we have decades of illhealth ahead of us because although we live longer than we used to, that is not in good health.

Personal responsibility is a thing, I understand fully as no one is personally coaching you you feel it’s a Wild West, so why don’t you buy from a pharmacy that offers that, many do, would you like some recommendations?

I don’t feel I need this, I am educated and personally responsible so I chose a pharmacy that doesn’t wish to do consultations.

you can’t pick one which doesn’t offer it then whinge you want it. Buy from one who does offer it. As said, we can provide recommendations for ones where you do regular check ins and consultations.

And what has that got to do with friable tissue and an anecdote from a plastic surgeon (who have a vested interest in getting people under the knife rather than taking weight loss injections if they were part of the American system)? Are you seriously suggesting I'm more at risk undergoing surgery at a healthy weight than when I was obese? People have been on these drugs for decades now and I'd think there would be a clear correlation by now.

And studies will be based on actual overweightness, not an approximation of a chubby person who actually happened to be obese because people had become used to seeing obese people.

@Notsosweetcaroline i’m still class 2 obese so I’m posting as a thick fat person 😆 I’ve jumped between 4 different pharmacies so far and while there’s info on their website (as there is across the internet) I’ve not spoken to a single human being yet and nobody has asked me about my dietary intake, exercise or anything like that, when I request my prescription. I do feel like that’s a gap that could/should be addressed by providers. As it is, I shop around to get the cheapest deal from a GPhC registered pharmacy.

Like you said, after years of trying to lose weight I consider myself pretty clued up on the science of weightloss (putting it into practice pre-WLI was the hard part). I am also very aware that a lot of the people taking the meds, sometimes from not legitimate sources, are not as chronically online as I am - are they getting the messages about eating enough food and maintaining lean muscle etc?

I am a WLI convert, but I do also think the method of delivery could be better and more holistic - might also mean we wouldn’t have to deal with as many snidey articles about how we’ll gain it all back as we’re all insatiable gluttons.

Oxford university disagrees with you.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2009-03-18-moderate-obesity-takes-years-life-expectancy

It wasn't osteoporosis I was referring to: it was studies on longevity, which are a pretty good proxy for overall health.