To think it will be revealed WLI cause physical aging

I’m religiously convinced that I look better and I feel healthier, because I do. I look great. I’m in my late 50s so sadly my face does look a bit older but the upside is that I feel confident, am loving buying and wearing clothes and feel healthier. That is all good. If you looked at me before you would never have said I was obese, just overweight, but I was technically obese. Fortunately I had no health conditions and don’t take any medication. Like many others I weighed up the risks of WLIs just as I would with any other medication. It’s been 100% worth it even though I’m normally quite risk averse and I’ve lost the weight slowly, steadily and sensibly. There are more people like me than you realise, lots of us are looking and feeling great.

If you genuinely think that people are not taking these drugs to look 'better' you are insane.

the reason you seem defensive is that you seem to think the negative things I have observed in some other people who take mounjaro apply to you, despite the fact I don't know you and you say they don't. I've obviously got no idea about how the drug is impacting, you and hope you are well and experiencing the benefits.

I do know the friend I saw yesterday, a man as a it happens, is so thin at aged 50 (he brags about being she same weight he was at 25) that he has visible kind of skeletal cheekbones. When I first saw him about 6 months after he started on the drug I literally went to the bathroom and cried, because I was convinced he had arranged the meeting because he was about to tell me he had a terminal illness. That's how bad it is. He is yellow with skin hanging off him. He looks frail like a terminally ill person before they die. He is also delighted to have lost all this weight and believes he looks great. I obviously said I was a little concerned he had lost too much and he laughed it off. I have a cousin who is similarly looking very, very unwell as a result of the weightloss from these drugs. Perhaps I am wrong and you can look emaciated and still be healthy. I don't doubt that these are game-changing drugs if you need them and take them safely. I can also see with my own eyes that they are dangerous for people who take them only because they want to look thinner.

Of course, many women are obsessed with "looks".

Maybe it is difficult for these people to realise not everyone thinks the same way, not every women prioritises "looks" over everything else in life, and many many women simply don't GAF about other peoples opinions on if they look "old" or not.

And some people who don't take WLI seem sort of religiously convinced of the fact people who do, look worse and ill, in turn.

I know I look better and healthier because I know what I looked like before and what I look like now, unsurprisingly. I also know that I am objectively healthier - I have had blood tests that confirm this, BP measurements, fitness measures, and so on. A decent-sized body of data confirming vast improvements in my objective health. Even if I looked like shit, I still would know that I am actually healthier and that my awful appearance was simply cosmetic. But you might see my poor haggard and sallow face, @Soontobesingles , and decide that I am unhealthy, but you would be wrong.

I do find it quite interesting how many people clearly consider themselves to be a reliable determinant of others BMI and health simply by looking. Obviously there are some cases where it's bleeding obvious, like if someone is morbidly obese or is dying of cancer. But the descriptions given are seldom of this type of thing. We've had multiple examples of people doing that whilst also using vague and unscientific descriptors in this thread, and that's not at all unusual.

if there was a thread about people taking anxiety meds they don't need, I'd say the same thing. I don't and have never taken the contraceptive pill because of the risks and generally only take meds if it's an emergency, so maybe I am just more risk-averse than most towards all medications.

I think what's different about weightloss drugs is that the people taking them seem sort of religiously convinced of the fact they look better and are healthier (which is true for some), even when their appearance suggests otherwise.

Another drug that I think a similar thing applies to is PrEP... a massively game-changing drug that will probably eliminate HiV in a generation of people, but will also be used by people who don't necessarily 'need' it as a long-term solution to barrier contraceptives, at a detriment to their health overall in the long term. Again, some/many of these people are being naive about the risks of taking it long-term, but that doesn't counter the fact that it's a necessary medication to alleviate a greater risk overall.

Anyone who wants to avoid what they see as defensive responses from WLI users would do well to make sure their points are clear and sensible.

I don't mean obvious idiocy like our long departed OP, but for example I often see people blurring legitimate concerns about off label use with their own subjective beliefs that people who they think don't look that fat haven't done a sensible risk/benefit calculation.

And there’s known serious side effects for a minority of paracetamol users, contraceptive pill users and, well, more medications than I can mention. It’s funny how this is the only people are getting wound up about. Funny that.

Lots of people take pain meds they don’t need, anxiety drugs they don’t need, etc. hardly anyone on MN getting all wound up about that.

well then what I said doesn't apply to you because you fall into my first bullet point 'truth' which was: 'these drugs are going to be massively beneficial for obese people whose health is at risk as a result of their weight gain'

my point is that this is a drug for a chronic health condition, with known quite serious side effects for a minority of users, whereas paracetamol is an over-the-counter analgesic for general use. So not really equivalent - although actually that is sort of my point, if you take any drug excessively (especially for a drug formulated for a condition you don't have) you are going to be harmed by it. People are interested in this specifically because it is a new game changing medication that a lot of people will (and do) want to take when they don't need it, because it makes them skinny and they want to be skinny. That doesn't apply to most other drugs.

i don’t know why you keep talking about ‘taking drugs you don’t need’. Anyone who meets the prescribing criteria is deemed to need the drugs.

If people are cheating to get the drugs that is very different. But that’s not me, or other people commenting here.

That’s true of any drug though. I know someone who died because their liver was damaged by using too much paracetamol ivwr the years. We do t have people getting their knickers in a twist that anyone can buy that for pennies at the supermarket though.

As discussed upthread, the NHS doesn't require in person attendance for a lot of medication reviews and things like blood pressure and weight checks already. I've submitted both of those without any scrutiny or checks. As WLI drugs eventually become cheaper/tablet and available to more of the population on the NHS, my guess is that a similarly trusting approach will be taken there.

If there's going to be legal consequences due to that level of monitoring, there's a lot of potential candidates!

Vague because I wanted to keep vague and they all have different circumstances, including, as I said, one using for postpartum weight gain while still breastfeeding. I guess it depends on whether you consider lying in an online consult to be illegal? Certainly dark web purchase is. Anyway as I said, if you are taking them and they benefit your health great - it is also undeniable that many people are taking them in ways that are likely detrimental to their health, and DEFINITELY detrimental to their appearance. But we will see in years to come how many I suppose.

You can also get from online prescribers without going in person to have your weight and so on checked (I know this is true as my cousin did this) — so yes, people may be getting prescriptions, but I think we will see a lot of lawsuits when the shit hits the fan and it becomes clear that (shock horror) taking drugs you don't need over a long period is bad for you. If the drug has helped you personally, great! I obviously hope you don't suffer ill effects and it continues to improve your life.

Worth spelling out here that 'cosmetic reasons' isn't a very useful definition because it's perfectly possible to be obese and doing it primarily because of appearance. If a person meets the prescribing criteria, the potential health benefits are the same regardless of whether they give a shit about them or not. In the same way as the risks.

The descriptions you give of your friends weights are sufficiently vague that we don't know if this applies to them or not, but this is why terms like 'verging on noticeably overweight' are really unhelpful in themselves. I wish we could retire such subjective language from these discussions!

I'm not sure it's possible to avoid a charge of defensiveness once made, if one responds with further questions. Perhaps the only non-defensive response is to accept your points without debate.

Anyone with a private prescription, legitimately acquired, has a medical reason for accessing WLI. So you can only be talking about people who don't meet the prescribing criteria who are acquiring it illegitimately, and who therefore do not need to use it. I wish that people would make that abundantly clear in their posts, rather than including those of us who legitimately access WLI privately. I don't think that was at all clear from your post, as you talked about people who paid for Mounjaro rather than being clear you meant people who accessed it illegitimately rather than simply privately.

The additional NHS criteria is not based on medical need, but on the practicalities of delivering this as a service. The 12 year rollout prioritises patients by seriousness of their weight related health conditions, and I would have had to wait probably 6 years or so to access Mounjaro on the NHS, despite meeting the MHRA criteria easily.

The NHS doesn’t view that people don’t need the medication. They have strict prescribing guidelines at the moment. I think due to cost, although I may be wrong. That may change in the future but if you don’t meet them you have to pay privately. The criteria for need is BMI 30 (or slightly lower in some cases). That’s what private prescribers use. It’s all legitimate and based on need at that level.

For someone who knows so many people on WLI you seem very uniformed. Most people are paying.

But most people pay for Mounjaro. It doesn’t mean that you’re not eligible or shouldn’t be taking it if you pay for it. It’s legitimately prescribed by private pharmacies. I certainly pay for mine, my starting BMI was 33 and I have no health conditions so I knew I wouldn’t be eligible on the NHS. In fact I don’t know anyone who has been prescribed it by the NHS, everyone I know who is taking it is paying for it.

Just because people are paying for it doesn’t mean they’re not eligible. There are so many misconceptions around this drug.

You do seem defensive tbh.

I was clearly talking in that part of my post about people who are using the drug and don't need it medically — is that you? If so, can you fully understand what the risks of long (life-long for many) drug use will be and whether this is worth it, particularly if the NHS views you did not need the medication?

As my post said, for those using it with a medical need these are life changing, life saving drugs, for those using it for cosmetic reasons (and yes that is lots of people, even if they've found an online prescriber) there are unknown risks and imo it's naieve to think you can take a drug meant for a chronic health issue you haven't got and will suffer no ill effects from that.

I wonder if some of the 'looking skeletal' comments come from people seeing that someone has a skeleton for the first time.

I know that one of the big changes for me as I lost weight was that jaw, cheekbones, wrists became much more visible. Previously hidden under a layer of fat. My neck appeared, seemingly overnight, which was weird.

7 stone down, another 4-5 stones to go. That will take me into a healthy BMI. Already my diabetes blood tests show as being 'healthy'. This doesnt mean it's cured, it means it is managed.

I was responding to the claim that the points you were making were true, and you are talking about me, as I am a person who has taken weight loss injections. You stated that those people (therefore me included) are defensive and naive when discussing the benefits versus the costs (risks?). I wondered why?

I know that the benefits outweigh the risks for people like me. That's not a naive opinion based on hopefulness, it's based on a full understanding of the risk/benefit analysis for people in my circumstances. I am not alone in that opinion either, as it's backed up by the decisions of the MHRA when these medications were approved.

Not necessarily, I look 10years younger than I did 10stone and 1 years ago