To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

OP i am in a similar position except that my brother is estranged from us (whole other story)!

My mum is a chronic hoarder and their once pristine huge house is full to the brim with 3 of the 4 bedrooms completely inaccessible.

It drives my dad absolutely demented but my mum has such a strong reaction whenever we bring up clearing the house, he's just given up talking about it.

Luckily I have POA and a folder with all their bank accounts and will for when the time comes.

I have now reached a point where I don't want to ruin the years they have left stressing about the state of their house. I don't have to live there at least!

Let them get on with it. It doesn’t matter what they want for their funerals. They’ll be dead and will have no idea what happens. Your dad is right in what he said. You could just let the brother stay in the house. Leave solicitors to deal with whatever they have decided in wills. Let estate agents deal with selling the house. Let your brother sort himself out. He’s an adult. You can choose to worry or not. But it’s not your worry.

I think if I was 70 and my visiting DD was asking about wills and funerals and burials etc it would put my backup for sure.

I am going to assume you have good intentions but maybe the bull in the china shop did to.

You are going about this all the wrong way. Take a step a back and give it some time-
what is actually the point of your questions?
they aren't going to change-you could try and help clear a bit or organise or look for family photos when home but otherwise I think you're not going to get what you want so either manage your expectations or gently help them now.

Gently - YABU. Don't spend the next years of your life worrying and stressing about this. When it happens you can deal with it then - or walk away.

With dysfunctional families like yours it always takes a crisis to act as thr catalyst for change.

I can sympathise OP, because my parents made no plans for old age/death and although not to the extent of yours they also supported my brother way beyond what is normal for an adult. In their 70s, they were both reasonably fit and any attempts to encourage them to downsize/plan etc was dismissed as none of my business. In their early 80s they both declined rapidly and it became apparent that their expectation was that I would take over responsibility for dealing with anything they couldn't manage (including all the death admin, mum's medical appointments etc, managing the house etc) and supporting my brother.

My advice is to accept that if you have tried to encourage them to plan better and they won't listen it's very unlikely that this will change. Stop spending your time trying to sort out their 'stuff' and spend the time nurturing friendships so you will be less worried about feeling alone.
I think you do need to make it clear that you won't be your brother's carers when they can no longer look after him (which could be years before they pass). It sounds like they are all unlikely to make any changes but I would point out that if he really is unable to look after himself he should seek professional advice so that he could be helped to learn some life skills and/or assistance when needed. They may well not do anything but it may make it easier if/when they can't help him and you don't step in.

I'm afraid that like PP I think it sounds like they have probably decided to leave the house to your brother, as he lives there and (at least in their minds) needs the help. They probably think that means his future is sorted but they clearly haven't considered what happens if they need to pay for care for themselves, or how he would function on a day to day basis. Or possibly they assume he will go to live with you when they pass. I think the only thing you can really do is protect yourself- make it clear that you won't become your brother's carer, put your energies in to building friendships where you live and resign yourself to possibly having to just get someone in to clear their house if it is sold.

Exactly what I was going to say... be very careful after your parents die, OP. Social services will try to force you to care for your brother. You need to talk to him about what he expects will happen once your parents die. You need to spell it out to him you won't have him.

I remember that episode. Was she buried under bags of poo? That program was horrifying as you say, but my god was it educational! Hoarding is often rooted in ocd, or trauma of some sort. If they're not willing to see it as a problem and get some help then there is absolutely nothing you can do.

There are companies you can hire who will clear houses.

This really does sound like one of those unfortunate situations where there is literally nothing you can do before it happens.

Just to add being 70 something myself having my DC badger me about funerals and inheritance would not endear them to me. I hope not to pop off any time soon and 70 really isn't that old these days. You could be spending another 20 years worrying yourself about this!

They sound so dysfunctional I’d walk away . I wouldn’t care a jot about any inheritance , they may well leave it all to the brother anyway knowing he can’t function as an adult . Save your sanity and enjoy your own life . They may be more agreeable to help once in their 80’s and they can’t manage

OP, have you considered your parents may well leave the house to your brother as hel still lives there?

It’s up to him whether it’s mindless shite or not!! @TheNoisyGreyLion

When I get old, I want the right to be able to spend my money as I please, without judgmental children watching me thinking “oh well I’ll only have to clear this out once you’re gone”

Would people prefer our old just sat there with tablets or screens, all possessions divested of neatly before they pass, so that they don’t become a “burden” to us ?!

Hard though it is, it’s very common for people not to share what their wills say or make proper plans for death- my parents haven’t shared what’s in their wills or made LPAs.

If you want to be involved you can encourage them but you can’t force them to face any of this, and it sounds as if they’re quite dysfunctional and perhaps won’t ever be ready to face it. You can only control what you do, not what they do.

I would encourage you to detach a little and focus on your own life. You are not obliged to manage anything- even if they have named you as executor, you’re not obliged to do it and can renounce the obligation entirely, or you can just instruct a solicitor to do it and charge the fees to the estate. Likewise there are companies who will clear the house after someone has died- again this can be charged to the estate.

It’s possible that they’re being secretive because they’ve left more to your brother but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case- it’s not unusual to want one’s will to be private whatever it says. But either way I’d build your life on the assumption that there won’t be an inheritance- they could live another 20 years or need care or spend the whole lot on banjos- after all, it is their money. Just try to detach a bit and focus on the things that you can control not the things you can’t.

Assuming it's just you and your brother if there are no wills the money will pass from one to the other and then to you and your brother. If there are wills I guess they may leave more to your brother if he lives at home. But it is none of your business really. Funerals you deal with when it happens and the value of the house is not important until/unless it is sold after both their deaths.

Why are you getting so upset about this, they are entitled to live their lives without worrying about funerals if the don't want to. And the content of their wills or if they have them or where they are is really none of your business. They could live for another 20 years.

I think you need to separate out the issues to find the real worry. I have similar parents and live one mile away. I see them daily because DM is disabled and it gives DF a bit of a routine for me to pop in.

The way I see it, rightly or wrongly is:

• You live 300 miles away. You're not doing the day to day. Your DPs have a son who is not coping with life. Your DF is coping by distracting himself with the latest whim. Your DM has become passive. It's coping strategies.

Do you think your brother does have ASD? Is it likely that your DF has ADHD? I recognise it in my DF more and more and it makes my earlier life make much more sense (and why I, and all my children have ND dx).

• I pressed my parents to make wills, but all I wanted was that they had one. I don't want a penny of their money, if there is any, really. I just don't want to have to deal with an intestate estate. So if they are telling you there is one, job done.

• House value is irrelevant unless they die or need care. It literally doesn't matter. In the next few years the value will change, they might need a charge against the value for care, etc. Besides, you can always look on Zoopla if you're interested and see what similar houses sell for.

• POA would be the most helpful thing practically, while they still have capacity. But if they won't do it, nothing you can do.

• If your brother is genuinely unable to live on his own/get a job, then the welfare state will kick in. He will be assigned a social worker and given some sort of accommodation/care. If not, he'll have to claim Universal Credit and he may well find himself.

• The hoarding. It isn't enough to tidy stuff into boxes. If they want your help, and you're willing to give it, you have to actually get the stuff out of the house. It's the only way. If they don't want your help and you're 300 miles away...why is it bothering you? Is it dirty or just cluttered? My DP live in a 4 bed house and there are times when I go through and help DF sort stuff out. He just doesn't have an organised mind and he's overwhelmed with caring for DM. I get a bin liner and put all the bits of scrap from 3D printing in there, along with old bits of paper, plastic containers that seemed useful... It's partly generational. DM and DF grew up poor and they were taught not to throw anything away that could be useful.

• None of the stuff will be sentimental to your DF or DM when they're dead, so it doesn't matter. You'll be able to work out what is worth keeping and what to get rid of. Let it go. It's just stuff.

I understand that you're anxious, but your post does seem to be focused on money. If you adopt the mindset that you'll get nothing and have some cleaning up to do, you'll be happier. Ultimately, that's all there is to it.

They won’t. My experience of social services is that it’s expert in washing its hands.

If it comes to being as bad as you think OP you can -
Ask a solicitor to help.
Leave your brother to it.
It is stressful looking out for older parents. But they could live another 15 years , anything can happen. Worrying about what may or may not come to pass is just suffering twice.
I would back off, don't ask about it anymore. Don't use more energy trying to persuade anyone to do anything.
Look after yourself xx

Your parents may be very worried about the future too, but "shove that into a drawer" too.
Think ahead, read through
Death and wills - Citizens Advice
at and wills - Citizens Advice www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/ share.google/4UaQbI0xUM201uoUR

When they get ill id just phone social services and let them deal with it.

I think you should
stop worrying and see what happens when one of
them dies. It may prompt the other to take action

Perhaps brother is the sole beneficiary of the will?

This but also they are not both likely to go at once. One will die and then you DON’T step up - let them make the funeral arrangements etc and sort it NOT you. Usually the death of one parent in this situation brings realisation that funeral/ clutter/ sorting etc is huge and takes time and effort. Don’t go to their house and don’t sort stuff. I would strongly suggest you just make it clear that he is not your responsibility (your brother) and social services need to step in.

Some v kind wise posters on here who have gone through your worries OP. It is hard to clear out a hoarder’s property- I experienced similar after a family member with serious mental health issues passed away and I was the only person to volunteer to clear the flat. It was harrowing but it also helped me come to terms with his illness.
ChatGPT helped and told me the costs of sorting out the flat plus any reasonable expenses - skip hire, man in a van etc- come out of the estate before any beneficiary is paid a penny. I claimed for travel, hotel stay, even a small wake for his distant friends who couldn’t make the funeral, all as reasonable costs.
These are tough life challenges no question, but you will cope - and do the best for your parents’ memory - when the time comes. But very kindly meant, that is really a long way off. Let go of trying to push for answers right now.

I relate to what you've written and my mum was a similar nightmare - I had to disengage for my own health. Lots of therapy helped me with this. Best of luck you sound successful and kind - don't let them drag you down anymore.

The most important thing you should be discussing with your parents is setting up POA for both.

Stop being a martyr. You don’t have to do anything when they’re still alive or when they’re dead. Live your life and leave them to it.