To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

So would I!

I slightly bullied my parents into getting LPAs - I said I was happy to help with sorting things out but I wasn’t going to get involved unless they had LPAs - I stressed they were welcome to choice who they wanted. I was the obvious person though. It makes everything so much easier.

OP -
you keep mentioning ‘sentimental items’ - what sort of things are you thinking of? Is there a reason you are putting such a big emotional value on them. Apart from a cute photo of us I can’t think I have a single thing of my Dads after he died. All my memories are connected to my memories not ‘things’. You need to try and make your interactions with your parents much more positive. You are ruining making those all
important memories and focusing on physical ‘things’. It’s the wrong way around.

A lot of posters have said that no one deserves an inheritance but I slightly disagree. Inheritances can be life changing and I think part of having kids should be treating them fairly throughout their lives. Parents should obviously spend their money however they want but keeping their children completely in the dark about their intentions is cruel and, often, manipulative.

I think the OPs parents are being very unkind although I can see that they might have found the OP pushy. It might be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds. If I were the OP I’d want to know their plans too.

I’m late 70s, DH is a little older. Our DC don’t refer to us dying, because we have addressed it ourselves. Surely that’s the responsible approach? I’ve witnessed the problems when someone has been secretive, or disinterested in the mess they’ve left for others.

Might it be that they’re leaving everything to your brother and that’s why they refuse to discuss it with you?? Just a thought.

At base, you can disclaim all responsibility. You absolutely have no control (or right, sorry) over how your family deal with this, the only bit you can control is how you feel and what you do....so I suggest you focus on that and let your parents get on with it.

I don't know what the situation would be if both parents went into care and your DB was still living there - that might be something they want to look into. You could mention it to them maybe. why should op mention it? It’s up to them! Although if by doing so she’s making sure they are aware she’s not taking on any support role for him at least they’ll know!

oh I totally get how you’re feeling! I could’ve written this myself a few years ago - my undiagnosed but autistic DB was living with my alcoholic DM in a filthy house full of stuff. My brother had never lived independently and we have very little extended family.

My mum died a couple of years back and I was left to do everything; organise the funeral, sort the house, sell it, deal with probate etc. It was very stressful and took a toll on me, but I’m out the other side now. It’s doable, rubbish but doable.

There’s no point stressing about what’s to come, you’re just doubling the stress. Seek out some therapy for your feelings of responsibility and, when the time comes, hire a good probate solicitor, a deep cleaning company, maybe a house clearance and you’ll be ok.

Firstly, sending lots of support and tea and cake OP. This is hard.

I'm in a not totally dissimilar situation though my sibling is very much better functioning than yours from the sound of it. I have learned (after several years) that you absolutely cannot make people face up to the 'what if's' around their death if they don't want to and yes, it's a bit cruel to keep pushing it. I totally understand that you feel it'll be you picking up the mess, this is where I am too, but I'm at the point of 'well I'll just have to deal with that when it happens' at this point. People do, all the time.

It sounds as if the most likely thing is that you won't need to sell the house when your parents die if your sibling remains living there, which I assume he will want to. Will he want to move? Isn't it likely that your parents will leave you both the house in equal share, in which case I think it's quite difficult to force a sale if someone's living there, especially if it's someone with additional needs / potentially vulnerable. Is he capable of living on his own?

They may also leave him a bigger proportion of house ownership or leave the house to him if they feel he needs it as a main residence. I'm not saying this is fair, but it's a distinct possibility I'd think.

In terms of care costs, as long as an owner is using the house as a main residence its value cannot be used for care costs - it's only if it's sold that the money is realised and then can be used for care costs.

I don't know what the situation would be if both parents went into care and your DB was still living there - that might be something they want to look into. You could mention it to them maybe.

Why do you need to see their Wills in advance of death? I suppose it might be helpful to know where they are but, ultimately, this is all up to your parents and their choices.

I highly recommend reading A Death in the Family by Karl Ove knausgaard. It's all about him dealing with the demise of his alcoholic father and the aftermath of his funeral and a really critical look at his own family. It really gets to the heart of pain, disappointment and love for your parents and the impact it has on everyone. In the meantime as others have said there's no point trying to fix them, try to focus on yourself and just have it in the back of your mind that a shitshow is coming, but it might not be for a long time yet.

Until you are in your 70s youhave no idea what it feels like. It must be horrible for them that you refer to them dying ( quite often?). You dont seem worried about the loss of your loved ones rather that it might give you some extra work.

Yet another stressed poster being admonished by sanctimonious responses!
”how dare you get involved op! Your only input will be to sort everything out when the time comes!”
am actually surprised there’s not been the usual “”What provision and support are you putting in place for your brother?! You know you should be arranging for him to move in with you or you should move in with him, after you’ve fully sorted his house of course!!” 🙄

Is it possible that your parents have left the house entirely to your brother?

im definitely in the leave them to it camp , there are so many variables that can change in the coming years

Im sorry for the stress this is causing you.
You cant see your parents will if they wont show it to you whilst they are alive.
Could you try asking your dad who is executor of his will .
Do you have power of attorney (health and financial)?

Stop borrowing tomorrows troubles OP!
While I agree it must be frustrating, they’re 70, could live another couple of decades, you could die before them, win the lottery, emigrate to Australia…who knows! They’re not your problem to be shepherding, yet. Although that day will likely come, there’s no point spoiling your day to day life worrying if they don’t want to engage.

Let them live how they want, and accept you can’t control behaviour without making your own life stressful.

There is a process if they die intestate anyway, you and your brother split the estate 50:50. Don’t worry about any of this OP, you don’t have to deal with it if you can’t or don’t want to. One of them will die before the other anyway, so that will change circumstances- usually men die earlier than women so it may be you can discuss these issues with your Mum once Dad has gone as she may be more open to it. But if not, don’t worry.

This is not a large Lladro collection, but a hoarding issue where they have to clear a small pathway to enter any room in a 3 bed house, which is obviously dysfunctional and unsafe which is understandably worrying for OP.

It seems you didn't inherit your ability to organise from your parents. I'm realising how lucky I am because my dad is about 20 years older than your parents and he's sorted his will, got me (even though I have two siblings) to sort out his overflowing garage and wears an apple watch - that he set up and organised himself - so if he fell or worse it would contact me or my siblings.
I'm not trying to gloat I'm just illustrating to some on here that it isn't thoughtful or considerate to be like your parents. It's completely their life to live and their money to leave how they like, but it is a big job to sort through a lifetime of stuff (I had to when our cousin died unexpectedly).
I wonder if they've left everything to your brother, because they won't tell you where the will is. Though by the sounds of it, your dad seems to get some pleasure from winding you up.
Try not to get so upset about it. At the end of the day, if they've left everything to your brother you don't need to do anything when they go.

I'd get the thread moved to elderly parents and post something separately in legal.

OP have you thought that they don't want to you to see the will because they've left the house to your brother entirely? If he can't boil an egg they're not going to leave him homeless.

I think you really do need to take a huge step back. Everything you're attempting to sort out now is largely pointless. Even if you did know what they plan to.leave behind now - what difference does it make unless you're planning to try persuading them differently while they're alive?

What will be will be with wills I'm afraid.

Don't become responsible for brother. By doing all this your setting up the expectation for precisely that.

My DH and I are in our 70s but we don't feel we are near death. Our affairs are clearly arranged and our DD (only child) knows roughly what is in our will so I can understand your anxieties about what the future holds but it's clear that keeping on is getting you nowhere.
It seems strange to me that your parents are not prepared to discuss their will/wills at all.
Some parents get very worried if they have one child more vulnerable than the other and I'm wondering whether the reason they won't discuss their wills is because they have left the house entirely to your brother and don't want to tell you.
Of course they can divide their assets any way they choose but I'm thinking that if this is the case you are going to be incredibly hurt, even more so if they are choosing not to tell you. In your position I would want to know where I stand.
I would start gentle asking them if they have thought about where your brother is going to live after they are gone. Ask in an interested, concerned way, not sounding anxious or accusatory and they might open up to you.
In cases where one sibling lives at home all sorts of different arrangements come up in wills. They could be leaving the house to him. They could be leaving it split equally with him having the choice to live on it for the rest of his life or for one year after their death or they could simply have split the assets equally as mostly happens.
I think you need to find out if you can and in any event do be prepared that in the future choices you had never thought of regarding your brothers future living arrangements might have been made 💐

If you want to learn more, I can recommend looking at the Sadmin courses from Rainbow Hunting. She's a widow and former wills and probate solicitor and great at helping people get this side of their lives sorted. Obviously more ideal for your parents, but if they won't you can start learning more

I understand how upsetting this must feel for you. To reiterate others, I think there is a strong possibility they have left the house to your brother. It sounds like they have never tried/been able to teach him to adult independently. On that basis can you ask about POA on the grounds of that making it much easier for you to support your brother? Is there anything in the house that is sentimentally valuable to you that you could ask to take now? Instead of boxing stuff up, could you suggest reviewing family photos together and get access to them that way? Just trying to think of ways you could achieve something that alleviates some of your anxiety without causing upset.
Otherwise unfortunately I don't think there's much you can do to change things at this point.

Tbh I think it's a bit strange to be badgering them about what they want you to do with their things after they're dead and stressing about house value, surely it is quite normal to have a house valued when the time comes? My parents are around 70 and it wouldn't even cross my mind to ask them now what they want me to do with their things.

Fair enough they are being unreasonable not to tell you where their will is in case the need arises, but otherwise I don't really see why this is causing you any stress right now.

I thought the user name sounded familiar.

OP you mention in that other that you have ADHD and PTSD, several dysfunctional previous relationships and that you are in therapy but you do also reference "supportive family and friends" which is good.

Really, concentrate on yourself, you are not your parents parent. Let it go. Just do you.