To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

Hello, very similar situation here. The actual "doing" of the work wasn't that hard and wrapped up pretty swiftly, all depends on your parents finances and what/how much they own. My DFs estate was relatively basic to organise and under the thresholds where it got legally complex.having a basic under of these bits may help you. It allowed us to do probate ourselves and it went super simply.

As others have noted there really isn't anything you can do to force them to face the reality, and you may find that your brother is favoured in the will. Which could be hard to swallow.

Some things to think about:

• One parent dying. Its likely to happen, are they prepared for this? It's almost messier. You have a codependent couple, one of which no longer has their person to lean on. There is often fall out from this e.g. care needs, financial etc. that are needed for decades longer. One potential positive could be that they have your your DB to lean on and he steps up.

• Distance. Like me, you are a long way from them, it's hard to organise things remotely. When the time comes you'll need to decide just how much time you want or can dedicate to this. I found it overwhelming and actually just paid someone to clear the house. I have the odd niggle about what I've lost sentimentally, but in all honesty I had to admit that I didn't have the mental or physical capacity at that time to do it myself.

• Your MH. It's easy for us to say just distance yourself from the stress, but it's not as easy in practice. An alternative is to lean into it and get some psychotherapy (not counselling) to help you explore this and hopefully equip you a bit better for when the time comes. It took me a few tries but was was invaluable for me when I found the right therapist.

You have my full sympathy - I am in a similar boat, no alcoholism to deal with but I am the eldest with chaotic parents, both hoarders.
I really wanted some kind of order and would go home regularly and do a clear out.

My parents were always well turned out and never had visitors to home so no one realised the bedlam in their house.

Then my Mum died suddenly. It was horrendous.
Now I see my Dad very regularly but not at his house, ever and we have a great time. I wish I had realised this earlier and done the same when Mum was around instead of trying to create some calm home - it was never going to happen.

You know that not all autistic people are the same, right? And that their autism gives them different challenges and different options (or lack of them)?

I'm constantly amazed at the number of autism parents who will parrot the 'if you've met one person with autism...' trope, while at the same time acting as if their own child's autism is the only kind'.

A couple of things from personal experience.

re skipping everything. A very elderly aunt had to move into a care home. DH had to meet with Social work. Aunt’s flat had every cupboard and shelf crammed. You could see that she just lived on the surfaces. Social worker told him to throw everything into a skip.

It felt disrespectful to me, and I quietly bundled up things for recycling or donation. There were diaries, photos of her in the Wrens, and her travels during retirement. In the process I also found bank books, isas, backdated pensions, totally about quarter million. Which helped her enjoy her final months in the care home, and was passed on to her similarly very elderly sister after her death.

The other thing is, I’m in my seventies. My memory is not what it was, and I need the physical presence of my so-called crap to trigger my memories. And photos aren’t the same at all, especially on a screen and not in photos in my hand.

It’s the time element @Gaspanic, her stuff is all jumbled up it can't be just chucked. She admits herself that there is legal paperwork that she has no idea where it is. She lives over 200 miles away. We will probably have to live in her house for a couple of months. We have fortunately just retired but have had friends who have had to do this and work FT still.

My children have adhd and autism and multiple other disabilities and are working!!! Autism is ZERO excuse not to be able to work! He is just being lazy

I think YABU to sort out boxes and not expect them to put everything back to be honest - that's Hoarders 101. Don't waste your time.

With respect to the rest - honestly if something only had sentimental value to your parents and not you yourself, you don't need it in your home. I have well-organised parents but they are aware I will be selling on some of their antique vases and silver etc as I have a small house. Obviously small things that mean something to me I will keep like wedding rings/marriage certificates/family photos.

(I also suspect that if your mum is a bit soft/feigns ignorance then the house will go to your brother and they won't tell you).

You can refuse to be an executor in the UK, provided you have not already acted on behalf of the estate ("intermeddled"). You must formally step down by signing a Deed of Renunciation (Form PA15) to give up your rights permanently, or apply to have "power reserved" if you might want to act later.

Steps to Take if You Do Not Want to Act:
Do Not Intermeddle: Do not pay bills, distribute assets, or close bank accounts. Doing so may prevent you from stepping down.
Renunciation (Permanent Step Down): Fill out Form PA15 (renunciation form) to formally give up your rights.
Power Reserved (Temporary Step Down): If other executors are acting, you can let them proceed while keeping the right to step in later if needed.
Appoint Someone Else: If you are the sole executor and wish to step down, you may need to fill out Form PA11 to appoint someone else.

Renouncing your role as executor does not stop you from being a beneficiary of the will. If you have already begun acting as executor, removing yourself becomes much more complex and may require a court order.

they more than likely have left everything to your brother including the house as they will be worried about where he will live etc - THAT is why they are refusing to let you se the will! YOU will be expected to look after them when they can’t and give up your family life for theirs and then they expect that you will take on your brother and babying him for the rest of his life l! With nothing to inherit! Make it VERY clear to them now that if that is what they are expecting that they need to rethink as ut WILL NOT!! And for gods sake STOP cleaning their bloody house!! They make the mess they can clean it up!!!

I wanted to share my experiences just to let you know that I don't think YABU.

My parents who are 80 both have undiagnosed MH issues and until her dementia made it too difficult for her, my Mum was a huge hoarder. Repeated requests to try and get on top of the chaos in their house and make any plans for the future were met with flippant remarks or outright dismissal.

We finally managed to clear 2 rooms that were waist deep in old paperwork and rubbish after the dementia stopped my Mum getting too angry about it, but it was still a battle over every Tesco receipt from 1991 etc.
They are both now in ill health and struggling to live independently but still will not face up to day to day practicalities. My Dad is still compulsively buying stuff on Amazon and Ebay daily and continuing to fill the house with crap.
I am an only child, so it all falls on me. I would prefer them to have a comfortable life in a clean accessible house with carers coming in. This will never happen. I have to accept that they have the right to live their lives the way they want and, much like you, I will be the one filling the skip at the end of the day.

I totally sympathise with your worry about important or personal paperwork /photos being lost. My Mum had jumbled everything together and wads of old paper notes and jewellery were stuffed in to carrier bags alongside literal rubbish and old bits if paperwork that was no longer needed. The whole lot needed to be sorted item by item.

@ByRoseSnake

Some useful websites if they haven't already been posted (I've read the OP'S comments but the FT)

https://www.gov.uk/when-someone-dies

https://www.thefarewellguide.co.uk/whattodowhensomeonedie

This latter one has some great resources.

If it helps in any way, AgeUK do a booklet you can order for them to fill in called 'Lifebook' where they can record important information, where things are located, their wishes etc.
Just ordered it for my DH to take to his 90y old Mum so that he can use it as a starting point around what she wants going forward.

AgeUK Lifebook

If they leave the house to her brother wont sorting it be his problem anyway? Chances are the last one standing will need carehone and the house will get sold to pay for it anyway.

Worth bearing in mind that the OP's parents are 'only' in their 70s. My dm is 87 this year, fortunately of sound mind and has decided as her original estimate of how long she'd live has passed, that she will now live to 92! Physically, she is in reasonable health.

My estate manager (sounds grand, we live in a normal semi!) advised using the next generation as extra POAs so when one of us dies, they can support/use the POA.

They're 70 plus not 104.

It's true it's not your business right now what they do with their money. And they just need to tell you (or who they've chosen as exec) where the wills are at some point before they pass.

Their junk once they've died, their estate can pay for it to be removed to landfill or you and family (or whoever inherited it) can sell some of it when the time comes.

Right now if you want them to keep more tidy actually take the boxes of stuff to the tip for them. That seems to be the bit they won't do.

But stop badgering them about wills and death etc. they've every right not to want to talk to you about it.

You can renounce the executorship. It's a very simple form. My mum's executor (not a family member) did just that.

You would need to research and consider any downsides to losing control of the situation though.

I agree. I am executor for 2 wills atm. Both activated in the last year and the paperwork is overwhelming sometimes. Luckily one is coming to the end end was reasonably simple.

You have a very good observation there. It does seem OP is a bit obsessed with her parents demise when there is 2 of them at this stage and she doesn't mention health problems except her dad's a drinker.

Yes, executors had to sign ours and our POA-we got ourselves organised a couple of years ago as no dc, so everything has been left to nieces/nephews, who are also executors if they live in the UK. Those abroad are equal beneficiaries, I'm going to ask that they maintain a UK bank account, think they still have one.

Sure. If you click on talk then all topics and work your way down to other stuff, you’ll find a tab for elderly parents. Lots of support and advice can be found there.

Doesn't the will have to be signed by the executor? I have always had to sign when I became executor of someone's will. It's quite a big responsibility and not something everyone wants to do. Same as POA.