To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

I can relate to this as the parent. When my dd and husband visit, infrequently because they live far away, I catch them looking at my stuff. I am not quite the minimalist my late DH would have liked but I am very tidy and I prune stuff regularly and don’t replace. I know what they’re thinking and yes this is a big house with many many books but my goodness it does annoy me. Mainly because they don’t say anything but stand or stare looking. For what it’s worth I would say either leave them alone for a bit or if you do some clearing for charity etc then take it away yourself. But at the end of the day it’s a home for three adults and could well be for another ten years or more. You surely don’t want to be this stressed for that length of time. Live your life. Best wishes

I get that you're looking at it all and thinking 'ffs, I'm going to be stuck with sorting this out one day!'

But you really can't be keeping on at people about their Wills, it's literally none of your business at this time. The very most you are reasonable to ask of someone who doesn't want to discuss their Will with you is:

'When the time comes, where should I look for your Will, or has someone else been given the details?' - after all they might have named a solicitor as executor it's nothing to do with you, and

'does your Will have funeral instructions or have you written that somewhere else/do you want to talk about it'

and if they don't, and it doesn't, you just do what you think is best when the time comes.

I'm strongly inclined to agree with this.

My thoughts too. I can understand @ByRoseSnake feeling frustrated but really they need to leave them be. Very difficult I know.

People are saying your brother is an adult, but if he has severe needs, he is actually more like a child. No one can diagnose him online, but if he genuinely does have cognitive issues that are very problematic, leaving him to deal with all of this would be like abandoning a child (obviously not everyone with the condition you think he has can't live independently, but I am only going from what you have said). It was really your parents' job, not yours, to have him diagnosed and plans put in place for his care, if he's never going to be able to care for himself, but it sounds as if your parents have issues themselves. I would contact social services about him if you really feel he isn't capable of caring for himself when they die, in the same way I would contact them about a child in need.
Whether you feel your parents need intervention is another matter.

The house clear out costs can come out of the estate. Leave them to it.
Maybe they’ll leave your brother there. It is easy to assume he is lazy but most adults wouldn’t choose that lifestyle without some sort of dependency on their parents.

You say your parents are in their 70s and that you have been on at them about this for 6 years. You really need to stop. Your parents could live for several more years, even a few decades. It will no doubt be difficult once they do both pass away, but cross that bridge when you come to it and enjoy what time you have left with them.

They're planning to leave everything to your brother, that's why they don't want to talk about it. He will have been working on them for years.

Once they're gone he will expect you to take over the mummy role, to whatever degree you are willing.

I think a lot of women/daughters deal with this to a certain degree.

For your own happiness, I would suggest you step back mentally and physically. Set up cleaning service for them. Remind yourself that these are all adults and if they are not worried, you should not worry for them. All this talk about death is not good for anyone, either.

Time is slipping by for you, too. I'd focus on your current adult life and put your energy into the positive things you have going for you in your present life. Of course it makes sense that you will worry about things with your childhood family, but I think you need to work on not letting it be so much of a problem for you as this seems to have been going on for years now and nothing has changed, time has only passed.

I think it's completely reasonable to be concerned when you see people you love heading for a cliff edge. So here's my prediction on the whole thing...

Dad's health will go down hill leading to him needing care. If there's not enough income to the household then the local council will need to finance this. Mom (and DB) can't be kicked out of the house to pay for care home fees because they live there and can't be made homeless. If Dad's pension(s) are the main income for the household it will need to be mostly ignored for care costs as it's needed to support Mom (and DB).

When Dad dies the will should be found so his wishes can be carried out. This should result in some amount of tidying to find it. Meanwhile you could check the land registry for the house to see if the house is in his name only. I think there is also a will registry that you might check to see if the will is registered (check for Mom as well). If no will can be found under rules of intestacy everything will go to Mom.

Repeat the scenario for Mom but likely with less money as women generally have less money and pension income. But then there's the issue of what about DB. Unless he has a diagnosis of some sort the council may want the house sold if Mom is in a care home. Or they may simply place a lien on the house so they get their money back when it's eventually sold.

Then there's the issue of what happens when Mom goes. Does she have a will? It may be that Dad thought his will was sufficient for both. (lots of people think this). But without her will again intestacy would say that you and DB split the estate evenly. Does that mean you sell the house and DB has to find somewhere else to live? Do you leave him there with all the clutter, no income and no way to maintain the house?

The wild card factor is whether there are any powers of attorney for anyone. It sounds like the 3 of them are managing, just. So if Dad is looking after everything but becomes incapacitated who will make decisions on finances and any health issues? There needs to be both POAs for all 3 of them likely naming you as the one that can leap in to the rescue. My guess is that this hasn't been done and by the time it's needed it will be too late to put them in place. Which means social services will be in charge. Very sad.

Not sure if that helps at all but that's my take on it.

The lawyer. You justvrecuse yourself at the first opportunity. Did you actually sign the will? Even if you did sign up you can still recuse.

If my daughter lived 300 miles away, and each time she visited, she lectured me about my home and my lifestyle, instead of letting me enjoy her rare company, if be so upset and disappointed.

And I speak as someone who has spent the last two years living the nightmare of dealing with my mum's estate and a shipping container full of both absolute rubbish, and treasures from my childhood.

Nothing you can do at this point is going to make a difference, frankly. And the more you let your attitude during your visits spoil your parents relationship with you, the more likely they are to favour your sibling.

Not to mention demanding POA on a mentally competent adult!

You are having a lot of anxiety of something is beyond your control and responsibility.
I voted YABU just because of that regardless of your good intentions.

Maybe take some photos of the things you find sentimental that way you at least have that if you don't get the thing itself. Also take scans of the photos you want.

From hoarding experience (gran) - if you see something you actually want to have, ask for it. Say it would look lovely in your home etc.
Anything else: Take anything you are offered, pretend you're grateful, then bin it at home as needed.

There's another thread somewhere about what people want to keep of their parents possessions.
It might be worth a read of different perspectives. The bottom line is that you don't have to keep anything and many, many people just keep a token item that reminds them.
I've known friends who just pack up their parents stuff and bring it home. Filling their own loft or garage forever with stuff they neither want nor need.
It doesn't get away from the job of sorting stuff out but it's not as hard as you might think. If they leave the house to your brother you'll have nothing to do. Just ask him for mum's ring or dad's banjo, whatever you choose.
If it's left to you both you'll have to .sell but you can get people in to clear.

It's hard to judge just how disabled your brother is or if he is just spoiled. Keep in mind that son's of alcoholic dad's do suffer in ways that are unique to them.
It sounds like he may have Peter Pan Syndrome if he doesn't seem disabled in any obvious way. This can be caused by trauma in childhood. How was your relationship between your dad and brother? Alcoholics can be very unpredictable even ones that aren't violent and this could have impacted his confidence. You don't have to answer as this is a tough question but could give you some answers.

You are trying to parent them and they are behaving like children and resisting your interference!

The only solution is to stop, let them get on with it, and deal with it at the appropriate time.

No amount of making yourself stressed or clearing out two boxes which are then replaced is going to change what's happening.

I also wouldn't step up to sort out your brother, he's an adult, your parents are adults, let them be adults the best way they know how and keep your own ship afloat (which is hard enough!)

It is frustrating they won't do more or engage or think of the future but they won't and aren't and you banging your head on this wall won't help.

Look after yourself, your family and get support and help when the time comes to deal with them.

I vote for the 'walk away and leave them to it' option.
I do appreciate that's easier said than done.

I agree with pps advising you to drop it. I would say most elderly parents are similar to an extent although maybe not so extreme re. the hoarding.

My father wanted to talk about the important documents like wills and house deeds etc but my mother would never allow it. She was in complete denial.

Also they would never accept help with cleaning or tidying so the house became quite messy and cluttered. I used to offer to sort things but had to accept that they always said no.

Let them get on with it and yes you are stressing yourself out and you could have years and years more of this. My parents lived till their early 80s but I have several friends with parents in their 90s and still in their own homes.

They are only in their 70's, and you are badgering them to clear their house out and show you their Wills, to basically prepare for their own deaths rather than living in the moment. I can see that they must find that quite intrusive and quite depressing!

My FIL and his partner are in their 70's, and would be furious if we suggested they do a death cleanse. They are still gallavanting all over the globe and having a whale of a time.

They could live another 20 years. Yes, the mess would be frustrating, but you can hire a house clearance company if you can't face doing it yourself. Re the house, you're going to have to sell it, and hopefully your brother will have enough to buy something smaller with his share.

I can sympathize with you Op. I was the eldest child of an alcoholic father. It does shape your outlook on life as you tend to get parentified as a young child and combined with ADHD (same here) can make you obsessive about looking out for everyone. I also had 2 siblings that were higher needs, but luckily one that wasn't. In the end my dad ended up looking after my mum for 5 years as she had a massive stroke. He then lived for 5 years after she passed so you cant predict life.
Don't panic about what others are saying about the house being left solely to your brother. This is unlikely as if they really considered him high needs they would have got him assessed years ago. They probably just don't mind him being there.
Have you tried another approach, such as concentrating on forming a closer relationship with your brother and getting him more independent rather than focusing on your parents or would that not be possible for you?