To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

The funeral and wills are relatively straightforward. If they have wills their lawyer will pipe up. If they don't there are rules that will determine how the estate is spilt between you and your brother. (IANAL but he could be classed as a dependent and get more potentially).

The hard stuff is what happens when their health starts to fail. Who will care for them? Is the house suitable for people with reduced mobility or for carers to come in? What happens if one of them dies or is hospitalised?

If you were going to focus your efforts,. perhaps think about convincing them to do a power of attorney. At least then when the time comes you would be able to make decisions for them and access their funds.

What you described as being a worry for you ,was my actual situation
Mum refused to discuss,had a fall took to hospital and never returned home ,she got diagnosed with dementia and I had to take over finding her a secure rest home
We lived 5 hours apart
I had her entire house to sort out ,from food in the fridge to clothes in washing machine..to a full loft and garage,to stopping all bills ..BT were horrendous and insisted they couldn't stop the direct debit without her say so , despite me explaining she was in hospital with dementia and a broken shoulder..water company also horrendous.
I had an entire house to sort .clean and get ready for sale ,while dealing with solicitors and estate agents and trying to find a secure rest home for her ..and jumping to the demands of consultants in the hospital who had no understanding of the fact I lived 5 hours away with 4 school age DC ,and I couldn't just drop everything and drive up for meetings .
Absolute nightmare..and that was with me having POA ...that is your first port of call op ..you must get POA in place asap

I suspect they haven’t equally shared things hence not showing the wills to you.

Get some good counselling to help you let this go.
Perhaps speak to social services to see what would happen to your brother if left suddenly alone

im 70 and hope for another 10 years anyway

its likely they will deteriorate at diffent times healthwise, carers will come in, cleaners, meals on wheels - it’s unlikely things will continue like this and gradual changes may be made - but it doesn’t have to be you making them. Step back.

That's what I thought after I'd read the opening post

Sounds like they’re leaving leaving everything to your brother

My parents are like this. DM died last year and we all just dealt with it. They refused to talk about death and funerals. And it's just three of us left now. Why would you want to know what's in their wills?

While they need to sort it out I don’t think you’re able to see their side of it, it’s obviously too huge for them to deal with and they’re putting it off because they can’t deal with it. It’s their mortality and you’re saying ‘come on sort it all out plus sort out the mess your house has become’. That’s a huge thing!

Whilst that is undoubtedly people’s prerogative, we should be clear that choosing to leave stress and a mess and loads of work for other people to clean up after you have died is deeply selfish, and not something that a society should encourage.

I understand that sometimes people die suddenly, and of course circumstances change. But the culture of secrecy and taboo around the practicalities of death and dying is profoundly dysfunctional.

By the time anyone gets to their mid seventies they have had more than enough time to contemplate their mortality.

You don’t have a partner, children, friends or a job - do you @ByRoseSnake ?

Where there’s a will… there’s an inheritance obsessed relative impatiently waiting in the wings!

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.

or now one really cares and is just getting on with living their lives. You sound like you are stuck, bored and just focussed way too much on your parents.

As for their will, I doubt we are talking a big estate here!

Stop panicking about what happens when they die - I am 71 and not planning my own death yet! Get on with living - enjoy their company- and stop worrying over what you can't control.

You say you’ve been while but you sound absolutely exhausting. Leave your parents alone. They’re in their 70s not their 90s no one wants to think about death all the time and you’re creating problems. why would your brother be homeless? you say you love your parents show them love - you are lucky they haven’t banned you from the house.

I understand it is frustrating, my parents would not put anything into place and it feels like banging your head against a wall, however it is not your job to solve it all, if they have got to the age they are and haven’t changed they’re not going to now, like your dad says when he’s dead he won’t care so if it comes to it just get a house clearing company in and dump the whole lot. They’re not going to stop hoarding now so let them get on with it. Enjoy your life and stop worrying about theirs, you won’t change them now.

Dysfunctional or not, I really think you need to drop this. Are they actually dying, either of them? You sound really panicky and there’s no need. Leave them alone. Stop with the sorting and the questioning.

Some people refuse to discuss wills because they think that by doing so, this will somehow expedite their death. My df was like this and he managed to get my dm round to the same way of thinking. It is what it is.

Is part of your worry coming from a feeling that there is an expectation that you will take responsibility for your sibling (either from your parents or him) once they are gone?
Does he have additional needs?

You just need to let it go.

My parents are like this and I doubt they even have wills.
They’re not going to change and so me keeping on at them is not going to help and all it does it stress me out.

When they die, you will just need to try and find the will and any photos that you want to keep and get a company to throw the rest of the stuff out.

I doubt your brother will be of much help.

You seem too much the other way (why would have they their home valued) but that’s due to your parenting.

Unfortunately your DB seems to have followed in your parents footsteps whilst you have gone the opposite way - which is good in some ways but you also need to be careful it doesn’t lead to anxiety over the things you can’t control.

Let it go and deal with it once they’ve gone.
They’re not going to change.

They have no idea how much the house is even valued at...

They're living in it. Why should they need to know this?

It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...

he’s not spending his savings or drawing down on the precious house equity you’re worried about, he’s spending his pension on his retirement which is what I thought pensions are for?

I’m sorry to share this @ByRoseSnake but I think you’re being a little bit unreasonable.

The only reason I’m saying this is because it feels like you are auditing your parents because you have (rightly or wrongly) placed a lot of stock on your future happiness, on your ability to be ‘rewarded’ by a decent inheritance.

Not knowing therefore

• what the care home fees arrangement might be (will it take from house sale or equity)
• if your father is “frittering away” money that could be available after passing
• not knowing the house valuation

seems to cause you anxiety for the future.

In the meantime both your parents are here, which is more than I can say sadly.

I wish you luck resolving this, but I think you’ll have to accept at some point that you cannot control certain things.

They sound very stressful.

but with the best will in the world, people don’t really like to make plans about their own deaths. Lots of people don’t show their wills in advance. Very few people sit down with their children and plan their own funeral.

the thought of death is upsetting to most people and many deal with it by not dealing with it.

the good news is that they do have wills. It’s a good start. And there is a house, so if one or both of them need to go into care there is some money.

it may help you to research the process of what happens when someone dies - my dad died a few years ago and we used the tell us once service which honestly sorted a lot of stuff out for us. The funeral directors were very helpful and talked us through the arranging a funeral process - most of the people they deal with have not arranged one before and so they are very experienced at guiding you through the process.
we got a solicitor to sort out getting probate and dealing with the will which was about 3k if so remember correctly.

Some people don’t like to talk about death. Not much you can do here. Maybe offer to help clear some clutter gradually, as you’ll be sorting it one day no doubt. A friend passed suddenly last year and her daughter and I spent months clearing out her flat, one room you could barely get in.

I'm assuming that your parents are being so cagey about their will because they are leaving all their assets, including the house, to your brother.

As other posters have said, there isn't anything that you can do about their reluctance to have a conversation about what happens after they did, but you can stop cleaning and tidying when you visit or even cut down on your visits if you are finding it all too stressful.

Whatever you do, don't accept the role of carer for your brother after your parents die.

I understand and have been through this.

if you would like my advice, back off and don’t try to work it out or even think about it.

You could be dead before them. Don’t waste your life worrying about hoarders, they care about themselves.

Back away and live your life as happily as you can each day. Good luck x

OP I think you are being unreasonable to have spent the last few years so focused on this. They don’t care so why do you? Just leave them be. Stop going in and decluttering their house. Let them live their last few years without you hassling them and just get on with your life. You can’t control how they live their life or when they die just let it go before it consumes yours.

Just hire a skip or a house clearance company when the time comes and move on.

@ByRoseSnake

Tfere used to be a tv show in the US called
”Hoarders.”
It was horrifying, but it was like a car crash - it was terrible but you couldn’t look away.
So that’s how I know about hoarders - except the ones on the tv show were extreme and that’s why they were on the show..
But I remember one lady in particular - she was a hoarder and there were pathways through her house too.
She was isolated because hoarding is a mental illness and she withdrew from everyone and every type of community gathering that might have brought her friends.
Anyhow, people finally noticed that she hadn’t been seen for quite some time, so they went looking for her.
The police were brought in, and they broke into her home. All they could see were piles and pile of junk and pathways, but no woman.
After several days, the smell alerted them to her body - it was buried under large pile of clothes and other items.
Evidently, the pile fell on her and she couldn’t get out from underneath - she was smothered.

I only tell you this in the hope that you could relay it to your parents. Maybe if they heard a tragic story about hoarding, they might mend their ways.

Sending love from faraway ❤️

YABVU. Your parents could be around anothe two decades. Just detached yourself from it and i live your own life not theirs. Your dad is right, the hoarding is nothing a skip can't handle and that's where all my dads shit will be going one day but I certainly don't care about it now.