To not even bother sending my child to school?

I know a girl who sounds just like your dd. She really struggled in primary and had no friends. She is a completely different child in secondary. She just needed to find her little tribe. She goes to lunchtime computer club and she’s now got her eccentric little troupe of drama nerd friends and she has blossomed and loves school. It’s been transformative for her. I’d give it go and see how she gets on rather than clipping her wings before she even has a chance.

And I know a girl like op's DD who was horrifically bullied through secondary and tried to take her own life by 16 as a result. She did not find her tribe, she did not fulfil her academic potential, and she has never really recovered.

I realise my daughter EHCP "journey" will make me sound like a thicky as I'm not quite sure how it happened.
Primary and secondary school dismissed my concerns, said the wellbeing team could support her, she didn't need an EHCP.
I applied in year 9 and was turned down. Told to appeal by other SEN parents, appeal failed. Local council woman was obviously massively annoyed at being there as she had no idea about my daughter. But the chap in charge of the appeal told the school off as they had no info on how they were supporting my daughter and suggested they basically get their act together.

About 6 months later school had organised an educational psychologist to see my daughter (in council offices as she wasn't attending school.) Another visit two months later and some easy form filling from me and they issued an EHCP, in the march of year 11.

All of this could have been avoided from year 1 if I'd been listened to.

I reckon my LA could have managed the 20 weeks if it hadn't been for the tribunals.

I must say it was a real eye opener for me the lengths they were prepared to go to to deny us an assessment though. And as LAs go, they're better than some of the others!

There are children who "find their tribe" at secondary; of course there are.

However, I have taught year 13s with EHCPs (and tremendously supportive parents) who haven't managed to make friends at all in the 7 years. My niece only managed it at 16 when she moved schools to somewhere single sex and much smaller.

I don't know much about home ed but I'd have thought if you can find the right group, children would already have quite a lot in common and the shared experience of doing the group. Plus if your child doesn't like the group, you can simply stop.

All year 7 have in common often is being the same age, and maturity levels can be worlds apart.

Some are issued within the timescales. Some LAs achieve that more than others. You can see the statistics online if you are interested.

You can’t challenge a breach of the timescales via Tribunal. If necessary, you do it via a pre-action letter then JR proceedings.

Have you requested alternative provison under section 19 of the Education Act 1996? This is separate to the EHCP process. If you have but it hasn’t been implemented, you can look at a pre-action letter and JR for that if you want to.

My dd struggled at primary school, especially with friendships. I was incredibly worried abiut secondary school because I've been a secondary teacher for 25 years and know how awful it can be for some children. I have been blown away by how well she is doing both socially and academically since going to secondary. I think it would be a mistake to assume the experience your dd will have there.

The myth being perpetuated is that the “School would also need to support an EHCNA”.

They don’t have to. It is possible to get an EHCP even if the school isn’t supportive of the need for an EHCNA and subsequently an EHCP.

The unlawful behaviour is LAs having blanket policies of refusing to assess or refusing to issue just because a school doesn’t support assessing/issuing. The thresholds for assessing/issuing are set out in the Children and Families Act 2014. Neither requires the school to support in order for the LA to agree. So if LAs have such blanket policies, it is unlawful.

Some schools perpetuate myths do a range of reasons. From a lack of understanding and being schooled in LA policy rather than the actual law to not understanding/recognising a particular child’s needs a many more. Also see myths such as you can’t get an EHCP for an academically able child, you can’t get an EHCP for a deferred child, we need to have spent £6k, we need 2+ APDR cycles, you can’t get an EHCP without a diagnosis, you can’t get an EHCP if your child isn’t attending full time, you can’t get an EHCP without an EP assessment first, it is impossible to get an EHCP for a child with dyslexia…

It isn’t “raring for a fight” to point out something isn’t correct.

🤣 You obviously have never had the experience of trying to hold a business together and homeschool like so many of us did during COVID. It was, of course, considerably easier then because we were all forced to be at home. If you were out driving to group sessions and work experience and social meet ups 8 hours a day, would you still be able to run your business? Probably not.

I would not count your chickens before they hatch. Let her give school a go. So what if she’s reading in the library during lunch? That’s fine! Secondary schools have lunch clubs for exactly this reason. She’ll meet all sorts of kids who would rather code or read than socialise at lunch and that will be wonderful for her.

I know a girl who sounds just like your dd. She really struggled in primary and had no friends. She is a completely different child in secondary. She just needed to find her little tribe. She goes to lunchtime computer club and she’s now got her eccentric little troupe of drama nerd friends and she has blossomed and loves school. It’s been transformative for her. I’d give it go and see how she gets on rather than clipping her wings before she even has a chance.

@MotherOfSEN Join HEFA Home Education for All on Facebook, they’ve got all the info you need in the guides regarding your legal responsibilities as a parent and how to deal with the local authority and written responses to them etc etc. Personally I think you should trust your instinct. I occasionally wonder if HE was the right choice, (because it is not an easy choice and you are holding the responsibility and will be blamed if your child doesn’t succeed, even if school might have made them suicidal) and we’ve been doing it 8 years, then DS has a meltdown over something small and I know the stress would be a thousands times worse in school. He has a good circle of friends and attends scouts and karate so does enough socialising for him. There have been ebbs and flows but it’s always felt like the right choice for a happier child.

I (ex primary teacher) feel that uts weird that school dont feel.an ehcp is needed , but in the same breath are saying that neither secobdary will be a good fit! Why not? What issues are there for them to think that?

Have you checked with the schools as to what they iffer? Our local secondary does wrap round 'care' for children who need it with playtime and dinner time activities/safe spaces. I work with kids with trauma and ours wouldn't use it, but if it is something your daughter is doing at primary school she may manage it at secondary. She would only be spending lessons with her whole class and breaks etc with children who are.also ND and friendships might be formed.

Have you discussed secondary with her? Does she have any worries and concerns?

Good luck because when a child isnt happy at school it can become an absolute nightmare trying to deal with school and support your child x x

Likewise, this is difficult for parents of academic kids to visualise, but you could plonk DD in the best library in the world and she wouldn't pick up a book voluntarily, and you can send her to good lessons with some pretty good teachers and she will have 0 desire to do any homework, having from her point of view having sat there for 5 hours being more than enough already.

Fortunately she likes the social side of school!

I mean I hope one day she may be motivated to study because she really wants something out of it, but I think there would need to be some kind of direct financial reward. If I could apprentice her to a trade at 13 I would. She'd do a lot better with a very practical education.

I’d say trust your instincts on this. If you have the means to provide a suitable education for your Dd in a supportive environment go for it. It’s something that may be a possibility for one of mine. There’s a huge proportion of us that don’t feel comforted by assemblies and school trips just because there a 400 of your peers sat alongside you. When I think back some of the most times I’ve felt most isolated are when I’ve been surrounded by people.

I think if you are absolutely certain you can meet her educational needs at home you should do that.
The damage done at secondary schools to children like your daughter can be enormous.
I was your daughter 40 plus years ago and what happened to me has never left me and I sometimes wonder about the person I might have been without the way bullying changed me.

I have not read the full thread but simply wanted to add that the two homeschooling families who live near me are very busy with groups and joint activities every day. They seem happy, well adjusted (at least two children are ND) and sociable.

@Bubbles332 I'm sure you do your best at work. No-one is attacking you here (some of your parents may be unreasonable - I get that as I can do my best as a teacher but I do get the occasional disgruntled parent, because we all do and people are human and not at their best when worried about their child).

However, why do you think local authorities lose over 95% of SENDIST tribunals? Do you not see that there must be law breaking at a truly epic scale to generate a figure like that? It is well above the figure for the employment tribunal, the immigration tribunal, the disability payments tribunal - which are no walk in the park to contest!

My daughter has an EHCP.

The local authority refused to assess her. I took them to tribunal and SENDIST said they must assess.

The assessment (unsurprisingly to me) found she had significant difficulties. I had to put a lot of work into making sure the assessment was done properly, ensuring every part of it was booked in and completed.

The local authority refused to issue a plan.

Second tribunal; SENDIST ordered them to issue a plan.

I'd quite like the two years of my life back while I did the LA's job for them. It wasn't like they were offering to mark A-level essays for me. And frankly I'd be fired if I was as slow and inaccurate with paperwork as them, and if I treated parents like they treated me (they don't even put their names on letters and I don't think they ever replied to an email unless I rang up and made them go through the inbox).

The school were pretty good but then it was private and I would have been extremely unimpressed if they'd not helped given the cost of DD going there. Even then they didn't "see" the ADHD and ASD until we had an assessment done, when they could suddenly see it!

It is governed by statutory timescales but I don’t know anyone who’s ever got it done in that time. The LAs simply break the law. It’s up to parents to challenge that through tribunals etc.

My DD sounds similar, except more social. Year 7 broke her, total burn out that resulted in no school and no support for 6 months and counting. Yet still we wait.

It’s a joke. The system goes from saying everyday of attendance matters and harassing you over every missed day to ignoring you and leaving you with nothing for months. I’ve even had the school SENDCO tell me a few terms off is no
biggie.

I give up. The system is killing itself and taking kids down with it.

If you work in SEN you probably understand how difficult EHCPs are to get so the school weren’t being unreasonable in not requesting one if she needs next to no support. They applied for one recently for my 5 yo and basically had to fabricate how severe his SEN is to desperately access funding.

I also agree the schools don’t sound suitable for her. I went to a school that size and it was hideous for me as a NT person, just so overwhelming with daily fights, a lot of bullying and overstretched exasperated teachers. So yeah, I would recommend giving homeschooling a go with the tutors and lots of extra clubs so she isn’t isolated.

Oh absolutely.

My school would also add new year 7s to enhanced transition where the paperwork from primary suggests they need one and those who are somewhere in the EHCP process but don't have one yet.

That's why I picked them for DD too.

Not all schools are like that. I'm a teacher and of course teachers and schools want to do the best by children, but there are some really severe clashes with what the government require us to do, at times. So what the "best" is, is really contested. I mean you know that. You've had to put enormous effort in to advocate for your children.

I think it’s difficult to picture for those with NT kids, but you could put my child in that scenario 24 hours a day and she’s still very unlikely to be invited and even less likely to want to attend any of those things.

When the school gets that EHCNA request, the LA asks them for evidence. The school either supports the EHCNA by sending the evidence or says ‘we don’t have enough evidence.’

What myths are being perpetuated there and what laws are being broken? Why do you think schools and LAs ‘like’ to perpetuate myths? Do they get a kick out of denying pupils the provision they need?

I’m trying to drill down because I’ve recently noticed an uptick in parents at my work who come to me accusing me of discrimination and raring for a fight, rather than just talking to me like a normal person, and I wonder where it comes from.

Councils are going bust and it’s public money that’s being spent on these EHCPs. Of course we have to be robust about how they are allocated.

If you have time to home educate and it feels like the right thing to do, then you should go for it.

How could a child with ASD not be on a register? That would be a safeguarding thing.

Ive never known anything not be written down. How can you go back and check or keep paper trails? Or defend or protect yourself or someone else with no written proof? It’s crazy. We used to send loads of emails. All incidents, contact with parents, any other issues were recorded. Kids on report, or any minor interventions all recorded.

I think for me the big question is WHAT would you do for home ed? I don't home ed, but I have seen a number of families do it very successfully. You need to arm yourself with knowledge about lots of aspects:

• What would a typical day look like?
• What subjects would she study?
• How would you find resources for those subjects?
• What is in the community for home ed parents that you could access?
• How would she meet and form friendships with other children? (These could be a mixture of other home ed children and school ed children outside school times.)
• How would she get to point of being able to get a number of GCSEs especially Maths and English?
• Even if you can work flexibly, how much work would you have to do and what would your daughter be doing while you were working?

It would be a very poor school if OP’s DD wasn’t coded as K.

Just because there are things a parent may have received previously doesn’t mean they still have them or that they haven’t forgotten about. I support parents through the EHCP process, I have not come across a SAR yet which didn’t provide some evidence in some way that the parent didn’t already have. It might be one sentence. It might be more. It is helpful either way. It is a poor school if they don’t have any written records.