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AIBU?

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This country is doomed

964 replies

HappyFace2025 · 27/02/2026 08:29

While the vote in Gorton and Denton may be described as a 'protest' vote the strength of both the Greens and Reform performance is something to worry all of us not just Labour.

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OneGreySeal · 27/02/2026 11:38

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 27/02/2026 10:41

I think the very ‘homogenous’ (for want of a better word) voting on the part of Muslim population and their high level of voter turnout is an important factor here. And agreed, the Greens policies are frighteningly crazy)

Apparently in the 2019 election, 80% of all UK Muslims voted for Labour, providing 3 million of their votes they received. They won the 2024 election with 10 million votes (9,708,816 to be exact).

The author, Dr Parveen Akhtar, describes Muslim voting as a ‘bloc’ which also chimes with the many allegations of electoral fraud around religious leaders putting pressure on Muslim votes (one noteable conviction of this very hard to prove change for the Mayor of Tower Hamlets) and the reports from Gorton and Denton of a high level of ‘family voting’ - multiple people being in the voting booth with huge potential for coercion.

The disproportionate power of the ‘Muslim vote’ could sway parties. We have already seen Labour apparently bending over backwards to maintain third highly motivated Muslim support. Will they now go all in to regain those votes (pro Gaza, pro immigration, anti gay rights etc) from the Greens?

From the article:
Signs that the special relationship between Labour and Muslim voters was under strain emerged earlier in the year at the May 2024 local council, mayoral and police and crime commissioner elections across England and Wales.
Here the Labour Party support was down by eight points on the previous year in wards with Muslim populations of over 10%. Crucially, Labour lost control of Oldham council and lost their deputy leader in Manchester.
If Labour had hoped this was a local level protest vote which would not be replicated in the General Election, then it was a serious miscalculation. Local election losses were in fact amplified at the General Election where Labour lost 5 previously safe seats to independent candidates standing on a pro-Gaza platform in Leicester South, Dewsbury and Batley, Blackburn, Islington North, and Birmingham Perry Bar.
In other safe constituencies, the swing away from Labour was substantial and MPs were returned with dramatic declines in their majorities, including Wes Streeting, who won in Ilford North by just over 500 votes. The new Justice Secretary, Shabana Mahmood saw her share of the vote in Birmingham Ladywood decline by 40%.
In constituencies with the highest number of voters identifying as Muslim, Labour’s share of the vote fell sharpest. In the 21 seats where more than 30% of the population is Muslim, Labour’s share dropped by 29 percentage points from an average 65% in 2019 to 36% in 2024.
The relationship between Muslim voters and the Labour Party has been tested before on foreign policy during the 2003 War in Iraq. In a parliamentary by-election held in 2003, in northwest London (Brent East) the Liberal Democrats overturned a Labour parliamentary majority of 13,000 votes.
At the time, the Muslim population of Brent – over 12% of the Borough – voted against Labour because of military intervention in Iraq. The by-election represented a milestone; it was the first time that British Muslims had used a bloc vote at parliamentary level. This was repeated nine months later, when Muslims helped to overturn a 12,000 majority in a by-election in Leicester South, handing the constituency once again to the Liberal Democrats.
Exactly two decades later and, following a different Middle Eastern conflict, the constituency provided one of the shocks of election night when Jon Ashworth, a high-profile member of Labour’s shadow cabinet lost to the Independent pro-Gaza candidate Shockat Adam.

www.electionanalysis.uk/uk-election-analysis-2024/section-2-voters-polls-and-results/changing-pattern-amongst-muslim-voters-the-labour-party-gaza-and-voter-volatility/

The absolute length people will go to to blame Muslims when things go wrong for them.

‘multiple people in booths’ and ‘electoral fraud’ disgusting and baseless allegations and inciting hate against an entire community.

Most Muslims come from immigrant communities and have historically voted for Labour because Labour was the party for immigrants who were factory workers. Their children followed however subsequent generations are now moving away from that automatic ‘vote Labour’ attitude.

The community in g and d saw a horrible, backward, racist party about to come into power and decided to tactically keep them out, said community happens to compromise of Muslims too.

It is labour and conservatives fault that they no longer represent the people of G and D.

Climbingrosexx · 27/02/2026 11:37

Are the greens not just a spin off of the Monster Raving Loony Party? There policies certainly reflect this

adlitem · 27/02/2026 11:36

FiveOClockSomewhere · 27/02/2026 11:27

Don’t blame the Green’s, blame First Past the Post. It reduces politics to a board game.

Men, women, gays, straights, rich, poors. They all have wildly different policy priorities within their demographics, but Muslims all vote the same way.

According to the 2024 GE data, there were 53 constituencies decided by the Muslim vote. 53 isn’t enough to win, but it definitely could be enough to form a coalition with a weak Labour.

If catering to the Muslim voting bloc can get them from 2 MPs to forming a government, which electoral strategist isn’t going to take that?

Just imagine anyone was saying this about basically any other demographic. Bloody hell, now is not a good time to be Muslim in the UK..... that's what depressing.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 27/02/2026 11:32

peanutbuttertoasty · 27/02/2026 09:28

This. Copy, paste.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

They literally repeatedly tell us their plans and yet leftist idiots fall over themselves to disbelieve it. This country cannot be helped!

Minds so open their brains fell out.

Quite and I thought the left claimed they were the only ones with the ability of “critical thinking”.
It appears not.

scottishgirl69 · 27/02/2026 11:32

OneGreySeal · 27/02/2026 11:28

I was planning on voting for Greens but now you’re saying they’re antisemitic, if they are that’d change my mind. What have they done that’s antisemitic?

Personally I would do my own research into a party rather than take it as read that they are mad, Communists and anti semitic because someone on mumsnet thinks that (and I don't vote Green).

Missohnoyoubetterdont · 27/02/2026 11:31

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scottishgirl69 · 27/02/2026 11:31

Apparently the Reform candidate stood on an anti Starmer and anti immigration policy and got over 10000 votes

The problem for Labour now is that the left vote (not all obviously) are choosing to vote for other parties

Happened in Scotland in 2015 - you can't take voters for granted. You can't always assume because you have had the vote in Labour heartlands that it's always going to be that way

HRTQueen · 27/02/2026 11:29

Yes YABU and over dramatic

It very bad news for Starmer but by-elections and local elections are rarely positive for governments

I do not think Zack Polanski's Green populism will fare that well in the general election but Reform (if they have not imploded which I think is likely with their sudden intake of high level egos) could do

Labour need to look ahead at the next election, this is why the Tories are so successful they do this from day one of winning the last election

OneGreySeal · 27/02/2026 11:28

PhaedraWas · 27/02/2026 09:34

They're mad. And basically Communists. And antisemitic.

I was planning on voting for Greens but now you’re saying they’re antisemitic, if they are that’d change my mind. What have they done that’s antisemitic?

FiveOClockSomewhere · 27/02/2026 11:27

Don’t blame the Green’s, blame First Past the Post. It reduces politics to a board game.

Men, women, gays, straights, rich, poors. They all have wildly different policy priorities within their demographics, but Muslims all vote the same way.

According to the 2024 GE data, there were 53 constituencies decided by the Muslim vote. 53 isn’t enough to win, but it definitely could be enough to form a coalition with a weak Labour.

If catering to the Muslim voting bloc can get them from 2 MPs to forming a government, which electoral strategist isn’t going to take that?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/02/2026 11:26

ensure human rights aren't eroded

they mean men's human rights not women's because they believe any man who says he's a woman is one ergo women as a sex class have no rights

so fir example at their spring conference there is a motion to allow men who say they're women to self identify into women's sports

and before the "yehbut trans issues/culture wars/no one cares" stuff comes in, the bottom line is ZP and his party is prepared to lie about something as absolutely fundamental that men can become women. They can't. Men are not and can never be women . So if ZP is prepared to openly and repeatedly lie about this I assume he's either completely dis honest or if he genuinely does believe it (he doesn't but for the sake of argument) catastrophically stupid

a fool or a liar just like so many other politicians

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 11:25

BunfightBetty · 27/02/2026 11:16

So you like the fact that the money would be distributed differently? Ok.

How do we pay for the increased costs their policies would impose on the nation - as an example, how do we pay for the vastly increased costs of open borders and unlimited immigration?

Do you know how much extra that will cost each year, and where that extra money will be raised from?

Oh what a shame I thought you were actually engaging in good faith. Open borders and unlimited immigration is not a Green policy.

You also missed the point that's it's not simply redistributing money, it is spending it more effectively

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 11:25

MaturingCheeseball · 27/02/2026 08:36

I must admit I am depressed. Have people not looked at the Greens’ policies?

And the win yesterday - it was on Gaza. I can’t imagine any Muslim voter being in favour of any Green policy except one.

It’s all bizarre.

Don't assume people are solely voting FOR something or someone. Equally they may be voting AGAINST something else.

We live in an era of political disaffection. Not many people are voting for reasons which are positively driven.

adlitem · 27/02/2026 11:25

DaringGreenPear · 27/02/2026 11:22

This is like saying the Tories aren’t racist because their leader is Kemi Badenoch

What makes them antisemitic @DaringGreenPear ?

ConcernedBookworm · 27/02/2026 11:22

The GE is so far away that anything could happen, so I’m not concerned yet. I think we do need to up skill and educate our population- especially when it comes to disinformation.

Reform lied and cannot be trusted- Farage has had a disastrous impact on our economy yet is not being held to account? So we need people who are savvy with comms to get this message across. Alternatively wait til Farage and co mess up - which I’m sure they will!

I’m sure there’s a lot that could be done to turn the ship around. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for government.

Also it’s worth remembering that the voters will feel more compelled in a GE not to split the vote, so it’s less likely they would see GE success vs By Election success.

quantumbutterfly · 27/02/2026 11:22

LancashireButterPie · 27/02/2026 09:29

I'm actually disgusted with Starmer over this. He kept Andy Burnham out of the running to save his own arse as Burnham would have initiated a leadership challenge against him at some point.

He sacrificed Gorton and Denton.

I have a lot of concerns about the Greens policies, but actually legalising drugs isn't one of them. Drug pushers and gangs would be a thing of the past. When you could buy drugs at a shop (like with the arguably equally dangerous alcohol) at least you don't have county lines lads with knives on the streets. The drug barons would be gutted though.

You can buy alcohol and tobacco legally, but there's a thriving black market in alcohol (with yummy methanol or occasionally toluene) and tobacco.
Imo it would be more effective to look into how people are drawn into that world and tackle that, or help them get out of it. I've been reading some interesting stuff on neural feedback as an addiction treatment lately. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but interesting nevertheless.

Elisirdamour · 27/02/2026 11:22

scottishgirl69 · 27/02/2026 11:09

Maybe people have just had enough of Labour and it's showing in the vote (I don't vote Green, Labour or Reform)

Or maybe Starmer made a mistake when he barred Burnham from standing. This should be a wake up call to Labour - not sure it will be though

I think if Burnham had stood he would have won, so this one’s on Starmer.
Many of the Green votes came from Labour supporters who were protesting against the Government - and also voting tactically to keep Reform out. I don’t think they all genuinely support Green policies, thankfully. I’d rather not live in a loony toon state.
A lot of yesterday’s voters probably don’t even know what the Green’s policies are.
Obviously, the Greens also hoovered up the single issue Gaza voters too, but most places have a lower percentage of Muslim voters so that shouldn’t be such a problem nationally.

DaringGreenPear · 27/02/2026 11:22

Sa11yCinnamon · 27/02/2026 09:37

Their leader is Jewish and they're antisemitic?

This is like saying the Tories aren’t racist because their leader is Kemi Badenoch

adlitem · 27/02/2026 11:18

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 27/02/2026 11:11

How is that an ‘Islamophobic’ generalisation? Many high profile Muslims are very proud of their faith and use its rather conservative values to inform their politics.

Our own Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood has said as much. You’re not claiming that followers of Islam are at the progressive end of the spectrum are you?

And prioritising Gaza issues over and above the long list of issues in this country is not good.

There are already 4 ‘Gaza’ /Islamic MPs in parliament, I think that’s enough.

Incidentally one of those Gaza MPs won his seat after the female Labour candidate was bullied, intimidated and threatened with beheading.

How is it not islamophobic to not be able to imagine that ANY muslim might care about any of the other policies that the Greens may have and ONLY care about Gaza? That is, of course, an islamophobic generalisation.

And prioritising Gaza issues over and above the long list of issues in this country is not good.

That's your view. And you don't know that that was the reason behind all the votes for the Greens. Perhaps the votes were because they were disenfranchised with Conservatives and Labour, and didn't want to vote for reform for pretty obvious reasons, so it was the best of a bad bunch. What's the alternative? Not to vote?

There are already 4 ‘Gaza’ /Islamic MPs in parliament, I think that’s enough.

4 Islamic MPs is "enough" 😂And you are really trying to maintain that you are not Islamophobic. Apparently approximately 6.5% of the British population identify as Muslim. If there were proportionally represented that would be about 40 MPs.

PGmicstand · 27/02/2026 11:17

Wordsmithery · 27/02/2026 08:36

I've voted Green for years and would be delighted if they were successful at the next election. Obviously a Reform win would be highly problematic though. What's your issue with the Green party exactly?

I'm just looking at their policies now - improve the NHS, reduce pollution, ensure human rights aren't eroded, rent control (so fewer dodgy landlords) and assisting the care sector all feature.
Surely that's better than wanting to make everyone have private healthcare, repealing the Human Rights Act, and remove workers’ rights and protection for tenants?

SooticaTheWitchesCat · 27/02/2026 11:16

EmeraldRoulette · 27/02/2026 11:10

Wondering if the posters here who voted Green in the past and still support them, actually understand what they represent now.

I have always voted Green in the past but not any more. They are not the party they used to be.

BunfightBetty · 27/02/2026 11:16

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 11:08

Their policies are not fully costed because no one's is this long before an election. But I think many of their policies are financially viable, for example they are in favour of more devolution and giving more funding to local councils to meet the specific needs of their local area. This has been shown to be a more effective use of public money, as the local councils have the best knowledge of what the local area needs.

So you like the fact that the money would be distributed differently? Ok.

How do we pay for the increased costs their policies would impose on the nation - as an example, how do we pay for the vastly increased costs of open borders and unlimited immigration?

Do you know how much extra that will cost each year, and where that extra money will be raised from?

MsGreying · 27/02/2026 11:15

MaturingCheeseball · 27/02/2026 08:36

I must admit I am depressed. Have people not looked at the Greens’ policies?

And the win yesterday - it was on Gaza. I can’t imagine any Muslim voter being in favour of any Green policy except one.

It’s all bizarre.

And worrying.

They are bonkers.

She's in favour of people working hard being rewarded well.. and reducing the cost of living.
Lovely.

Well pressure on housing from unfettered migration is a major concern for housing costs.
Youth unemployment is massive because we have lots of imported people doing rubbish jobs and because NMW means no one wants to take a chance on employing someone younger. Have they also made it much harder to employ anyone with additional regs and costs?

Currently council tax, energy bills and water rates are seriously impacting on people's quality of life too - but the solutions for those are perhaps also really difficult.

When you understand that everything a government does has to be paid for and that tax from hard working people is used to pay that we get unstuck.
We can't (and shouldn't) tax the wealthy more. Everyone should pay fairly according to their means.

For me I am concerned by their election ads with Urdu being a symptom of an unintegrated society. The family vote allegations (postal votes are invisible) at the polling stations are indicative of non-English speaking people having trouble voting.

The Greens have embraced these isolated communities with their Gaza promises and we should all be worried by this and the other bonkers green party ideas.

TiredCatLady · 27/02/2026 11:15

People voted for the candidate they felt best represented them and their area. The sour grapes this morning are just ridiculous. Labour’s campaign was fucking awful - real divisive race-to-the-bottom stuff. They’ve held what is now Gorton & Denton since 1931 and guess what? It’s still poor. They’ve done sweet FA for the area but somehow are surprised when people have taken their vote elsewhere be that to Greens or Reform.
The Greens fielded a great candidate- they’ve great candidates elsewhere poised to win the votes of disenfranchised Labour voters.
Reform fielded a gob from the South who is a racist, misogynist fuckwit. And still got more votes than Labour.
No party has entirely workable or fully costed policies this far out of a GE, or frankly, even at the point of a GE, surely this is blindingly obvious? Priorities will
inevitably change if they’re in government. Whatever Labour are doing is not working, they’re going to get a hiding at the locals. And yes, we could well be on for a hung parliament in 2029. The split will be interesting.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 27/02/2026 11:15

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 11:09

lol another intellectual without a single GCSE commenting..

Hannah is a Christian and Zack is Jewish..so where your evidence dear Amber that people are voting along religious lines??

They were voting for the Greens Gaza/pro-Islamic stance. Mothin Ali was the Green face behind the scenes.
Hannah was there to appeal to the younger, lefty voters.

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