GP didn’t call me because their “workday has ended”

I know.

Judging by some of the posters on here you either magic-up some extra hours or work for free.

Reading some of the comments on this thread it makes me wish everyone was paying properly for their own healthcare. They’d soon appreciate it more instead of moaning. I bet they are also the ones that complain that doctors earn too much. Ignorance really is bliss.

smh.

It’s not an emergency.

“a reasonable timeframe” does not mean the same day.

I think we mostly accept Op should have been automatically added to the next days workload.

However I do have to wonder if GPs being under pressure to see people within 24hrs or whatever target they have been set. Actually helps or makes the whole thing worse.

Not every appointment is THAT urgent. Surely it makes more sense to have appointments categorised between urgent "needs to be today" and non-urgent "can wait a few days"

We haven't been paying the taxes for that sort of service.

Too many people, an aging population and not enough GPs or community services.

But there are only so many hours in a day. You could say this about any job that’s its not unreasonable to be able to complete your job in your working day. But if the workload is so high it’s impossible then what do you want people to do? I treat patients in my job. I normally see about 14-16 a day. Every half hour back to back. However if my job booked in 40 patients in a day then unless I only saw them for 10 mins each and therefore didn’t do my job properly I just could not get through them all. So if a GP is given 200 patients to get through in one day, it’s it just impossible. It’s not the GPs fault. So while it’s not unreasonable to want to be seen in a reasonable timeframe, what is the solution if there isn’t enough hours in a day?

Nobody expects GPs to be their 'indentured servants' - they do have an expectation which I think is not unreasonable, that GPs will see them in a reasonable timeframe as that is literally what their job is.

For those that think doctors shouldn’t ever be able to pick up their own kids etc and should stay at work as late as needed in order to “finish” all their work, are you the same ones that think vets should work for free because they are meant to love animals and that dentists should treat children for free even if no NHS contract because it’s their moral duty?

Thanks - the use a nanny is completely off the wall - surely the nanny would still want a finish time go home make her own dinner!

Their children should just be collateral damage to suit the NHS and its failings.

All your ‘facts’ aren’t really facts though are they?

God forbid when doing their GCSEs and deciding to work towards getting into medical school that these prospective medical students didn’t consider the impact of having children on their chosen career paths.
Bloody hell.
Or should doctors not be allowed to have children?

They get remunerated very well and can afford a nanny? Do you actually have any idea how much GPs actually earn and the cost of a nanny for any decade outside of the 1960s?

Do you actually bother to preview your tripe before posting?

I think your probably right people get brushed of by GPs before ending up at A&E, but that's been the case for a long long time.

I know a young guy who was getting treated by GP for migraines before he could take no more and A&E found a tumour. That's 20+ years ago.

Someone said to me in the USA the Doctors work from the worse possible scenario backwards, get lots of scans and tests done at the outset possibly because insurance pay for it.

UK seems to operate rule out the most likely work up to the more serious causes.
Maybe the scrimping and savings on scans and diagnosis is actually false economy.

@CreativeGreen no, not 'everyone' is unable to access primary care. Plenty of practices now have total triage systems with a duty doctor each day working through all the online forms and assigning them accordingly. Many previous commenters have said their practice does it this way and it works well. More than happy to accept that sadly there are still far too many practices with the 8am scramble of course but it's hyperbolic to suggest the same dreadful experience for all.

As for GPs defending themselves, why on earth would they not be the best placed to comment on their own jobs and working practices, and the burden upon them? If I started criticising you and your industry without knowing much about it's inner workings, would you have something to say about it? If I said teachers or police officers or civil servants or social workers were lazy, selfish, lying about their workloads and refusing to change just to be stubborn, when I do not walk in their shoes, they would rightly call me out on any inaccuracies, fallacies or assumptions. Rightly so.

I was having a conversation about this only the other day and I know where I live the urgent care/A&Es of the local hospitals are often posting on social media basically begging people not to attend urgent care/A&E unless it is an emergency because the are so busy but I do think it because so many people are struggling to get appointments and with the increase of E consultations is making it even worse I am very fortunate that I have never had an issue with my own GP surgery🤞🏻
My DH was taken to hospital by ambulance in September last year and was in waiting rooms been moved from one to another for over 15 hours he was then discharged and had to return to urgent care 2 days later for a scan where they diagnosed him with pulmonary embolism.

So very very well said, most people do not a single clue what it's like to work in primary care, what goes on behind the scenes and how unbelievably gruelling it can be. Then constant media spin of laziness and outcry that GPs won't be their indentured servants. Yet doctors are the selfish ones apparently! 🙄

I think the original post is likely rage bait to be honest, as I've never heard of missed telephone appointment not being held for the next day although it's not impossible of course. And yes, if so, shouldn't have happened.

But otherwise, the post has seemingly achieved it's aims of...checks bingo card... GP bashing, NHS bashing, arguing for private healthcare (and who might that benefit???), hugely unrealistic expectations, entitled demands from the general public and some light misogyny sprinkled in with criticism of doctors who dare to work 'part time' Most part time GPS will still work extremely long hours closer to the standard full time or over anyway, or be pursuing special interests, additional qualifications or part of working groups at Trust or ICB level contributing to improvement projects and service redesign etc. Even if not, GPs and all doctors actually, are ALLOWED a work life balance, time with their families, able to exercise and undertake hobbies, have down time and rest, just like other people do! Many in other careers would NEVER put up with all the pressure, stress, uncertainty and burden that doctors do, yet expect those in caring professions to be machines who just do as the public demands. Absolute hypocrisy and the definition of selfishness to expect your free at point of delivery healthcare service to be propped up on the overwork, burnout and good will of it's employees.

I've written more than planned as some of the comments here are just ridiculous and I felt the need to defend the other side (disclaimer: former NHS staffer, now mature medical student).

Back to the original post, definitely contact the practice if you genuinely haven't been rebooked automatically but the GP bashing and the rest is unnecessary.

“It’s not unreasonable that the GP finished their work day on time.”

”I think it is when you’re denying people healthcare.”

Have I read that correctly?

The thing with the point about how we've all been duped into not seeing how hard GPs work and if only we thought about it it's just exactly the same as A&E doctors and consultants, it's just that we're dumb and have fallen for the line that GPs could conceivably do a little bit more to be accessible is, 1) GP surgeries are managed completely differently from NHS hospitals - especially relevant in terms of pay and systems/structures for booking and 2) GPs have specifically had to be told, in law, that they mustn't keep brushing people off when they repeatedly present with the same symptoms (I mean, isn't that supposed to be the actual job anyway?)

Yes, the NHS is underfunded and in crisis. But when this many people report this much frustration and this many systems that seem actively to be designed to repel people, and the GPs, you can't just keep telling them they're wrong and that there's not a single other thing that GPs could do differently or better.

No…. That’s why you have start and end working hours. I’m salaried and I start and finish at set times every day. If I don’t finish tasks for the day I still leave at 5 and carry on the next day. I’m not working more hours than I’m contracted for and I don’t think GPs should either

This is why I'm eternally grateful that I have a walk on centre 5 mins from me. If I need a same day GP appointment that needs to be face to face, I can almost never get one at my doctor's, so I have to go and wait to see one at the walk in centre.

They are a good in-between service from GP and a&e. The average wait is about 2 hours but it depends what you go for. When I went this week it was about 20-30 mins. I just go prepared with a drink and a good book. Although the people watching is always pretty good.

I've just read 90% of NHS GPs in England work part-time. I knew it would be a fair percentage, but I didn't expect 90%.

Zero point in being part-time if your still doing hours and hours of unpaid overtime. Now it can't all be due to children I wonder how many have reduced hours due to tax rules. Or what percentage are doing private GP work too.

No, they can make you an appointment with the out of hours GP.

Was there really enough in 2018?

I can't actually remember when my GP started the 8am madness but 2018 I had a toddler who'd been in hospital.

I was knackered and sleep deprived (who sleeps on a kids ward) on our way home, I dropped a letter in to the GP and asked for an appointment for the next week as per hospital instruction - oh no you have to wait and call at 8am on the day - not my finest moment but I did get the appointment booked

In fact I have been with current practice since 2011 I don't think I've ever been able to book GP in advance

Every single time I've tried I can't get through. Every time.
I've been down to the surgery to try and get an appointment in person for my sick child because I can't get through on the phone and I have had the door literally closed in my face. They wouldn't even let me over the threshold. And no, this wasn't during COVID.
GPs are hidden away in back offices now, googling symptoms for those few lucky lottery winning patients that actually got to see one, guarded by Rottweiler receptionists who jump down your throat if you dare to say you really do need some help. Loong gone are the days when you had a friendly respected family Dr who came to see you at your bedside.

A few years ago I never thought I'd say this, but I just do not see what the point in them is.

A&E is now the only way to get seen by a healthcare professional. Even 111, after ringing you back five hours after you made the call, will invariably tell you to go there and then look up your local hospital for you on Google maps, then act like they provided a service.

Tbf some GP surgeries work quite well. I am moving and am sad to leave my amazing GP, will action any child request on the day and adult requests (non urgent) will be seen in the next few days. We live in London (so assume more funding) and it's actually easier to see a child GP on the NHS than using our family BUPA (as lots of private GPs wont see kids).

I wonder if the problems with medical grads getting "starter" jobs is beginning to seem through (theres a long running thread somewhere on this).

Also to the poster upthread who said GPs can afford a nanny, GPs earn 100k (?), when i was working i paid around £200/day for my nanny so unless their DP is also well paid, no they absolutely cant.

I agree they should automatically roll
you over to the next day, rather than you having to go through the booking process again.

I think they can’t help it if everything overran/ there was an emergency. They can’t be expected to stay all night.

Oh so a nanny should just work longer hours too.

We must be on a different planet because I don't know anyone who uses a nanny.

Lots of GPs work part-time / flexible working for a reason not so they can work hours and hours of unpaid overtime.

What I don't understand is why the UK cannot train or retain enough Doctors.