Nearly 1m young people out of work

Not read any of the comments yet, but I think the problem is much bigger than 16-24. My cousin is 27 soon and she hasn't worked since leaving college, and her friends are the same.

"...as they are done by the main supermarket staff."

That is something that I've noticed as well. Go back 30 or 40 years ago and a sizeable proportion of supermarket staff working evenings were students aged 16-18. This did sometimes mean that people working Friday night had to start later on Saturday morning as there are strict rules concerning breaks from work for under 18s.

When I go in to Sainsburys or Tescos today there is hardly anyone under 18 working there.

Another reason for fewer jobs is the introduction of barcodes and scanning. Sainsburys started installing scanners in the late 1980s. Before then, just about everything had to have a price sticker applied with a pricing gun. This obviously required a lot more labour.

There were also a lot more instore counters (eg meat, deli, bakery) than there typically is today (with the exception of Waitrose).

.

@CandidLurker

"It’s starting to feel like the 1980’s ... I took work wherever I could get it eg a couple of weeks work over Christmas at Sainsbury’s packing bags and stacking shelves. Paid out of the petty cash box."

You weren't paid out of the petty cash box.

Back then everybody in Sainsburys stores, except management, was paid weekly in cash. There was no monthly direct transfer to a bank account or anything like that, you got paid in cash - to the penny - and were handed your pay packet.

Back then, cash was used for purchases a lot more than it is today so supermarkets had a lot of cash swilling around on the premises. It was easier and cheaper to pay the staff in cash out of the money taken from customers rather than to pay to have it transported securely to a bank.

Also, it was normal. Even in the 1980s it was normal for people to be paid in cash at the end of the week.

My daughter has been trying to get a part time job for over a year. The hoops she's had to jump through for zero -7hr contracts and then never hear back have been crazy. Her confidence is on the floor, I can totally believe many YP give up!

I have a sibling who had a good job working at a hospital on 4-day shifts.
Her BF who was on benefits and rarely worked convinced her she was a sucker so she went on long-term sick. She took early retirement and is now cruising.

I think the system encourages this behaviour and it's detrimental to everyone in society.

not to mention all the other generations that lived through experiences far worse, and for far longer, than covid?

I'm not denying Covid was awful for some kids (although some benefitted hugely). But the strictest restrictions only applied for a few months at a time. Even if you accept that it did have a significant detrimental impact on them, you can hardly say it was worse than the impact of WW2 on kids growing up in the 1940s? Or WW1 on the generation before that? Or kids growing up in the victorian era working down mines or in factories? Or the stress of potential cold war of kids growing up in the 60s, or seeing your parents out of work/on strike for months at a time for communities in the coal industry in the 1980s? And that's just this country - kids else where in the world have it even worse, even today.

Many of us growing up in the 70s-2000s had fairly idyllic childhoods on the whole (not excepting individual issues) but that's the exception, not the rule. Essentially in the course of human history, we were uniquely lucky, rather than the current generation of young adults being uniquely unlucky.

You know this is not true don’t you?

I guess it depends how you see the issue. 1m young people out of work is bad for them and bad for all of us. So we can sit back and say ‘that’s life’ or we can collectively try to understand the multiple social and economic factors that have led to this situation and try to do something about it. Application processes are one factor, by no means the biggest one, but one where employers could be encouraged or supported to do make changes.

A lot of employers are proud to employ people with disabilities, but the profile of disability has changed. Before it meant wheelchair ramps and a disabled toilet, now it means endless days off for the person concerned, long term sick leave for ‘burnouts’, a lot of adjustments around things they don’t want to do etc

"Whatever it's faults, it was one hell of a lot better than what we have today"

Yes, you make a very fair point.

Also, I do accept that I was likely being overly negative about the scheme as a whole.

Nobody wants young people to be stuck on benefits. But employers, having their pick from hundreds of candidates, aren't going to choose the young person who is autistic, or has anxiety, or has no GCSEs. They ask for skills, qualifications and experience beyond what the role actually requires, because they can. I don't blame them for doing that. but it means that less desirable candidates are going to get nothing but rejections.

I don't think it should be a race to the bottom either. I've done cleaning and care work so I have no sympathy for the 'too good to clean toilets' lot - but I've always worked set hours, not a zero hours contract where you have to be available for shifts 24/7. There's a difference between 'standard crappy entry level job' and employers taking advantage.

But there are hundreds who are also looking for work without those hurdles

B&Q are looking for an dependable employee not a social economic project

yes that’s harsh but there are half a million NEETs without a disability looking for work

employers aren’t charities or replacements for social services - the applicant needs the skills to fill out a form at least

this is basic stuff

You have no idea what my job is. I don’t work in benefits.

And you’re right, I have little compassion for the terminally workshy.

I don’t care what diagnoses they may or may not have, they have the mental wherewithal to date/have kids/go on holiday/cause merry hell/meet their dealer all day. It’s just work they can’t do, apparently.

But it did also used to be the case that entry level jobs were done by young people because older people had moved up the ranks. A lot of those entry level jobs that need very little experience have disappeared, while those left are indeed being done by 30 year olds earning NMW with years of experience they simply don’t need.

It really is awful, isn't it?

I'm 24, have two degrees and am currently working in a job (I admittedly enjoy) that's just above NMW.

For 2 years I was on a zero hour contract. No chance whatsoever of moving out of my parents' house. In the New Year, I was promoted to a leadership position offering 36 guaranteed hours a week. Great! Now I'll have enough to move out! ...Nope. Still not enough for the prices in my area!

Maybe it's best I stay at home a bit longer, though...I'm the only one here who actually has a job at the moment (never expected that when I was younger). My Mum and sister are studying only and my Step-Dad is unemployed claiming UC.

I think I've done pretty well for myself though considering I have ASD and the crappy area I live in. FWIW I got my first paid job at 17 through a friend. Kitchen porter. It was hot, wet and messy, but it was a start. Throughout uni I did a voluntary role which I'm convinced is what landed me my current job. Just goes to show every piece of experience can have a ripple effect.

And 500 of them could be rejected instantly

Like Oxford uni - medicine
8000 applicants for 300 places
4000 instantly rejected

that’s life

good to apply though it can kickstart a change in mindset

I absolutely agree.

But it’s not just a form - it’s a barrier to access to entry level jobs for some people, including people with some neuro disabilities or in data poverty.

Obviously this isn’t a problem for you, and for some jobs no doubt the application process is itself a necessary test, but the thread is about why so many young people are out of ETE. Well, the move to online applications is one of the barriers for some young people.

The reduction of part time work for those in education aren’t part of these figures surely, because they are in education so not a NEET.

There is work for all different temperaments at a young age. Not just retail, but what about just a job?

Postperson, collecting bins, helping on a farm, delivering leaflets, cleaning airbnbs.

Hard graft perhaps, long hours, but that’s work.

If you have a young person waiting for an employer to produce this perfect job with no bad bits and a lovely easy, work life, what about my journey, balance for an 18 year old who can’t make a phone call, or be around people or noise, then yes you might struggle or have to create a job yourself.

There is a dog groomers opening up near us, looking for staff, can you sweep dog hair, answer the phone and take bookings? I mean you don’t need 5 GCSEs for that.

Yes it will be unsocial hours with NMW. But so what? Not like you need to be at home because of young kids at that age.

But that’s beyond some they might be able to do the sweeping but not the phones. Or it doesn’t pay 40k or whatever.

What can they do? On a regular basis, reliably, 5/6 days a week, 47 weeks of the year. And what will they accept being paid for it. Work out, up or down from there.

@LunaDeBallona I've sent you a private message.

Regardless of the whys and wherefores, this is a catastrophic situation.

Did anyone watch the C4 news report on the Blackpool area? Leyland offered 22 youth apprenticeships, got 1,000 applications.

So much of this ‘I’m too good to clean the loos’ attitude is down to the parents though. I have been telling my dcs since they were young about all the crappy jobs you do as a teen and the you get better ones. Dd (19)’s first job was dressed up as an Easter bunny at a farm park - she was mortified, but did it for the Easter holidays before her GCSEs and then they promoted her to coffee shop in the summer. After a year there she moved to Starbucks and still works there at both her uni city and when she’s back home. She’s done so well. If you grow up with the attitude you are too good for jobs, that largely comes from home imo and the parents backing them up. No one WANTS to scrub loos or dress up in ugly clothes to serve shitty customers, but it’s a learning curve and you get on with it.

Never meant to imply they're all like that obviously but there's a real sense of entitlement with this generation that is worse than ever

My comment was a tongue in cheek jab at the overgeneralising comment that young people are no good or lazy or whatever it was.

It sounds like you don’t like the people you ’see every day’.
You certainly don’t sound like you have any understanding or compassion for people who are neurodivergent and those with ‘all the diagnoses flying in’ and then having kids ‘for more benefits’

perhaps you’re in the wrong job, you could make space for someone who actually cares and knows how to support people who are experiencing challenges and barriers to achieving and change and perhaps those people will achieve growth with the support of someone who has knowledge and expertise in supporting people rather than discrimination and judgment.