Nearly 1m young people out of work

Indeed, and more older people will end up on disability benefits rather than their state pension.

Yes

@igelkott2026 actually a big issue is raising the state pension age as it increases the age category of the working age population. Obviously the older you are the increased likelihood of illness/disability & about 1.4m of that group are economically inactive for that reason.

Sorry, no, I meant that some (not necessarily ill) will retire early or cut hours and live off their own pension/income without claiming any kind of benefits. As I said, I don't have figures to hand, but it has been discussed in the media about significant numbers of early retirees leaving the work force post the pandemic in particular (some going back when they realised their funds weren't going as far as thought it would).

No one is jobless because it is utterly impossible for them to fill in a form online.

No they’re not, and nobody said that.

What's really frustrating is that when I met my DH he was trying to get a training contract to be a solicitor but he was a bit older than average and law firms just weren't interested, it was very hard. Even though he had six years' work experience (in office jobs, not eg retail).

Nowadays, it's the other way round. Most law firms want experience of some kind and so they look at older candidates and it's the students coming out of university who can't get training contracts.

It shows that there is a massive not very disguised unemployment problem. However, a lot of them have the experience to work for themselves. However, ageism is a massive problem.

Basically you can get a job if you are between 30 and 40 - if you're a bloke that is.

If you're a woman you are too young, childbearing or menopausal so nobody wants you.

If they want that support, they will find the job centres or other facilities that will give them that.

Quit making excuses, it's ridiculous. No one is jobless because it is utterly impossible for them to fill in a form online.

If you’re not in college or school, no it isn’t. And some job centres are great, but not all are.

There are some really good programmes that do support people who struggle with this (and working with some of them is how I know people can struggle with this). But they’re mainly charitable or LA funded projects and there needs to be more of them.

For clarity, I’m advocating for supporting people and removing barriers so their natural drive and aspiration isn’t thwarted by shitty set ups. It’s not about letting people be lazy but actually trying to understand the pinch points before writing off a generation.

You ‘feel like’ that would happen? You think that entire group of 1m young people across the country, 16-25 years old, different backgrounds and experiences, will all have the exact same response?

Young people now are no different to young people then. They still need to eat and have a roof over their heads.

The difference is employers are greedy and want 5 years' experience and pay minimum wage, as an OP said. They even want internships for internships. There is zero desire to train, or to look at transferable skills.

I agree with the lack of creativity in some cases, or a lack of "oomph" - but in previous eras it wouldn't have mattered, something would have come up. Might not have been what they wanted, but they would have something. But not everyone can be super-talented and do a million internships. Or learn a trade - I would be rubbish at that!

I don't know what the answer is.

I mean the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We’ve created a situation in which a growing number of young people are out of ETE, and your solution is ‘well I figured it out’. Clearly, what we have isn’t working - for all kinds of reasons, application processes being one barrier for some people. But carry on, I’m sure it will eventually improve. 🤷‍♀️

It’s not about hurting someone’s feelings, it’s about making changes that could improve chances for some struggling young people

I feel like we could do anything though, and they’ll then start blaming something else.

It’s very blamey out there and personal responsibility seems to have genuinely vanished. Everyone is ‘being failed’ apparently

Of course they could, if they have the drive, the skills, the equipment and data. Just like you could, if you had the drive (because I can see you have the other things) learn a bit more about the 1m young people in this position and realise they are not all lazy or complacent. But you’ve chosen not to.

Of course they could, if they have the drive, the skills, the equipment and data. Just like you could, if you had the drive (because I can see you have the other things) learn a bit more about the 1m young people in this position and realise they are not all lazy or complacent. But you’ve chosen not to.

I don’t think you have looked past the end of your nose if you think the experience of just your kids is universal

Indeed

Do you think a weed smoking, lazy gamer who’s “good at FIFA” deserves a trainee football coaching position over someone who has spent hundreds of hours gaining badges and certificates, studying and working evenings, plus refereeing at the weekend?

Comments like this just don’t make me think you’re posting in good faith.

One of the key things in your post is that you’ve acknowledged that you could ‘bank roll’ your kids. Well not everyone can. And unfortunately there is a chunk of those 1m kids out of ETE whose parents can’t afford for them to do coaching and reffing for free every weekend, can’t transport them to volunteer on a farm at 13, and plenty of farms that wouldn’t take on an unknown 13 year old. And they can’t afford for them to be in school or FE either, so the kid goes on benefits and is then stuck. You think you’re educating them on how hard life is? Of course you’re not, their life is shit from the get go. It doesn’t matter how hard they work, plenty of them will not make it without changes they are not in control of.

People think the same opportunities should just happen for everyone and think if you hurt someone’s feelings by asking them to fill out a form you are a very bad person.

Nobody has said that and again, it’s hard to imagine you’re posting in good faith, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. It’s not about hurting someone’s feelings, it’s about making changes that could improve chances for some struggling young people, which are ultimately good for us all. I don’t want to pay for 1m and rising young people to be workless forever, and I realise that sitting there shouting ‘work harder’ isn’t going to fix it. I don’t think you have looked past the end of your nose if you think the experience of just your kids is universal.

Today's youngsters can't be blamed for not having a work ethic when society/politicians have put so many obstacles in the way of them getting a job, even evening or Saturday jobs

Agree, the jobs I did don’t really exist anymore. Many entry level jobs have been removed due to automation. When I’m in the supermarket and in a restaurant the staff are middle aged or older. There also isn’t the same progression so much anymore. If you start on a low wage, zero hours contract you could be staying on that for a long time.

But if they have the drive they could use an hour or two a day online for educational or upskilling if they have the desire to.

To try and excuse or fix utter laziness or complacency is society insanity.

Why wouldn’t it?

We all had to learn to do online job applications despite growing up in digital
tumbleweed. We learned 🤷‍♀️

This is not about playing Roblox it's about filling in applications.

For people struggling, support is available in job centres, colleges, schools for this purpose.

@ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere so you are saying someone not working for ill health at that age won’t claim for ill health due to a private income? Do you have any evidence for that as that’s not what the data says?

And where did I say people can’t help
being ill? I was just replying to a post about the cost to taxpayers from another poster…

Yes, many many teenagers are terminally online. But a sizeable number experience digital poverty. https://digitalpovertyalliance.org/digital-poverty-in-the-uk-a-socio-economic-assessment-of-the-implications-of-digital-poverty-in-the-uk/

Also being online all the time doesn’t mean being able to do every type of online activity. I’m no better at Roblox because I post on Mumsnet. Why would gaming or social media make someone good at job applications?

Young people (indeed our whole society) is perpetually online.

There are barriers, sure, but let's not be ridiculous about this.

I see it as the world doesn’t owe our teens a living

We could have sat back whilst they were 13 but we didn’t we told them to do something

So they got delivery rounds and do farm volunteering
and hit the books for their GCSEs

it would have been much easier, less resistance, to
let them eat biscuits and do online gaming - we can bank roll them for sure

but they have turned up (sometimes pissing and moaning) most weekend mornings for 4-5 years now

one plays football, and has seen their 16 yr old student coach do ref and coaching badges, on top of college, during the evenings and weekends, covering first aid etc and cutting grass on pitches, a full 7 day week with evenings - because this is the sort of hours that you need to put in to do this job (he wants to be a head coach and we all want tickets to his first premier club game). It’s relentless dedication. He’s an impressive young man.

People think the same opportunities should just happen for everyone and think if you hurt someone’s feelings by asking them to fill out a form you are a very bad person.

Life is hard and competitive. And boring and thankless. At least at first.

At some point you need to put in hard boring low paid, or free graft, that can be training or exams.

But just to know other young people are up against thousands who are already doing this. And is it fair? Yes it’s totally fair.

Do you think a weed smoking, lazy gamer who’s “good at FIFA” deserves a trainee football coaching position over someone who has spent hundreds of hours gaining badges and certificates, studying and working evenings, plus refereeing at the weekend?

Most teenagers are capable. Many are lazy and entitled. That’s for their parents to sort out.

Ones that struggle a bit more but could work need to work out what they can do not what they can’t.