Page 2 | To think that the overtime should be paid?

SorcererGaheris · 2026-02-25T11:26:44+00:00

In the bookshop in which I volunteer, there are two paid employees - the FT manager and PT deputy manager. (It's a charity shop.) I've been aware for a while that the charity does not pay the shop's employees for any overtime they do (which is probably the main reason that the deputy manager generally refuses to work more than her contracted hours.) But I assumed that since this was the case, they could therefore not *expect* employees to do overtime, since it's not paid. However, the manager is under pressure to keep the shop open for longer during the week and to also keep the shop open on Sundays when the volunteer team for that day are unable to come in. Sunday is the one day when there is no paid member of staff in the shop and it's entirely volunteer led, but but occasionally there are times when the volunteers can't come in to do their shift and when that happens the shop is closed on that Sunday. From a recent conversation I had with the manager, it seems that the charity does indeed expect her to do unpaid overtime, and there is so much pressure that it seems she is more or less almost forced into doing it. Discussing this with other volunteers, I learned that the charity offers time off in lieu for unpaid overtime, and that it would be in the employment contract. Time off in lieu would be reasonable IF taking additional time off was usually a practical possibility, but given the nature of charity shops relying on a staff of majority volunteers, taking additional time off is often NOT a practical possibility. So what seems to happen in practice is that the manager ends up doing overtime that is completely unrenumerated in any way. This set-up seems unfair to me. In typical retail, I imagine time-off in lieu of payment for overtime would be more reasonable, because all the staff contractually *have* to be there, so there're more flexibility and consistent cover. This is not the case with charity shops. Given the nature of charity shops, I think that the charity should either commit to paying any overtime they demand - or at the very least, they should not put pressure on their employees to do the overtime when they're aware that it can't really be compensated.

Original poster

SorcererGaheris · 28/02/2026 22:55

RawBloomers · 28/02/2026 21:32

I can totally understand wanting a particular day off for a particular reason and I realise TOIL isn't always easy to arrange, but I think your initial premise is mistaken. Your manger can avoid overtime by using TOIL or putting more into recruiting volunteers who will open the shop on Sundays. As the manager it is part of her job to arrange cover so that it doesn't cost the charity more than it needs to, or miss service standards and lead to lower profit. These are the primary goals of managing a shop.

I don't know the ins and outs of your basement situation. Maybe the other volunteers and the paid staff are ignoring a health and safety issue, maybe you are being "precious" about it. But my precious label was more because you (as a team) don't seem prepared to open the shop if no one can go in the basement in contrast to the other volunteers, even though no one needs to go in the basement to open the shop. So it isn't a safety issue. It maybe a "we get bored" issue when you can't go in the basement. Obviously, as volunteers you can have whatever standards you want, but from what you've said it seems like there are other volunteers who are not as bothered, so it does look like your team is precious and you aren't what the charity really needs in that role. They are managing costs so as to preserve income for the mission, that may well mean having cheaper, less reliable resources for things like waste collection. If I were the manager and really wanted the Sunday off, I'd be looking at increasing volunteer recruitment specifically for Sundays and shaking up the Sunday team a bit.

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@RawBloomers

But my precious label was more because you (as a team) don't seem prepared to open the shop if no one can go in the basement in contrast to the other volunteers

The basement is never officially out of bounds even when it gets overstuffed. It's used all the time. If going into the basement was forbidden, the shop wouldn't open at all because the other volunteers wouldn't go in either - there would literally be no work for them to do. In order for the shop to be open properly, work needs to be happening in the basement, because the necessary jobs can only be done if the staff are allowed access to the basement.

It's not a case of other volunteers being prepared to open the shop if no one can go in the basement because there is never an official rule that no one can go in the basement. The shop opens on those other days because the other volunteer teams are using the basement. If the basement was decreed to be out of bounds, they wouldn't go in either.

even though no one needs to go in the basement to open the shop.

In order for the shop to be open as normal, volunteers do need to be working i the basement, otherwise the jobs can't get done properly.

So it isn't a safety issue. It maybe a "we get bored" issue when you can't go in the basement.

I don't understand why you think it's a case of getting bored when I've explained that there is no work we can do in the shop (apart from the single volunteer on the till) unless we go into the basement at least part of the time.

The till is upstairs on the shop floor - but all that needs is one volunteer. There are three others of us that comprise the Sunday team.

Can you suggest what work the rest of us in the Sunday team can do if we don't go into the basement? All other jobs in the shop require entry into the basement. Surely you can see that there is no point in volunteers sitting on the shop floor doing absolutely nothing?

Pricing stock - we couldn't do that, because all of the unpriced stock is in the basement

Sorting unpriced stock - all stock that needs to be sorted is in the basement.

Replenishing stock - all of our priced stock is kept in the basement, which means we'd need to enter it in order to bring up new stock.

Culling stock from our priced shelves - all our culled stock is stored downstairs, so again, culling stock requires taking it into the basement.

If the Sunday team came in on a Sunday when we feel it's unsafe for us to be in the basement, then three of us would be sat around doing nothing at all. Because aside from serving the till, the other jobs that we are trained to do mean that we have to enter/use the basement.

OP posts:

RawBloomers · 28/02/2026 21:32

SorcererGaheris · 28/02/2026 19:24

@RawBloomers

I'm not sure it's quite fair to say that we're being "precious" about the basement. When we choose not to come in because of the basement's state, it's because we feel it's unsafe for us. I don't think putting safety first is necessarily being precious.

She doesn't have to work overtime, it's just that she'd prefer to work midweek and not Sundays (like most volunteers)?

Sometimes that can part of it (she attends church on Sundays so obviously wants to commit to that as much as possible and Sunday is her scheduled one full day off.)

However, other times, taking time off in lieu is, at the very least, difficult and complicated in practice. Sundays are totally manager free because we have Lead Volunteers who have enough experience and skills to effectively run the shop in the absence of the deputy manager and manager.

However, other days of the week do not necessarily have volunteers who are capable of or willing to oversee the shop without the manager or deputy present.

So taking time off on other days of the week would require that the deputy manager be there - and the deputy manager does part-time hours, so isn't present for a significant part of the time. The deputy manager won't do additional hours, so if our manager were to take time off during her normally scheduled hours, it would require some juggling around of the deputy's hours, and mean that she (deputy) would then not be in the shop for some of her normal hours that particular week - and depending on when those normal hours take place (in addition to the Sunday, the manager has two afternoons a week free) the manager might then end up having to cover those afternoon hours, which would then be yet more overtime...

I'm not saying that it's not do-able at all, but working it out seems to involve quite a bit of additional preparation and depending on circumstances, sometimes it's just not possible to arrange at that moment.

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I can totally understand wanting a particular day off for a particular reason and I realise TOIL isn't always easy to arrange, but I think your initial premise is mistaken. Your manger can avoid overtime by using TOIL or putting more into recruiting volunteers who will open the shop on Sundays. As the manager it is part of her job to arrange cover so that it doesn't cost the charity more than it needs to, or miss service standards and lead to lower profit. These are the primary goals of managing a shop.

I don't know the ins and outs of your basement situation. Maybe the other volunteers and the paid staff are ignoring a health and safety issue, maybe you are being "precious" about it. But my precious label was more because you (as a team) don't seem prepared to open the shop if no one can go in the basement in contrast to the other volunteers, even though no one needs to go in the basement to open the shop. So it isn't a safety issue. It maybe a "we get bored" issue when you can't go in the basement. Obviously, as volunteers you can have whatever standards you want, but from what you've said it seems like there are other volunteers who are not as bothered, so it does look like your team is precious and you aren't what the charity really needs in that role. They are managing costs so as to preserve income for the mission, that may well mean having cheaper, less reliable resources for things like waste collection. If I were the manager and really wanted the Sunday off, I'd be looking at increasing volunteer recruitment specifically for Sundays and shaking up the Sunday team a bit.

Original poster

SorcererGaheris · 28/02/2026 19:24

RawBloomers · 28/02/2026 18:55

The other days are already covered and Sundays generally are too - except when the volunteers (for whatever reason) can't or won't come in.

Then I'm not sure what the overtime issue is. If the other days are covered and don't have volunteers who are as precious about the basement on those days (so come in and the shop can open), she can take her time off then, can't she? She doesn't have to work overtime, it's just that she'd prefer to work midweek and not Sundays (like most volunteers)?

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@RawBloomers

I'm not sure it's quite fair to say that we're being "precious" about the basement. When we choose not to come in because of the basement's state, it's because we feel it's unsafe for us. I don't think putting safety first is necessarily being precious.

She doesn't have to work overtime, it's just that she'd prefer to work midweek and not Sundays (like most volunteers)?

Sometimes that can part of it (she attends church on Sundays so obviously wants to commit to that as much as possible and Sunday is her scheduled one full day off.)

However, other times, taking time off in lieu is, at the very least, difficult and complicated in practice. Sundays are totally manager free because we have Lead Volunteers who have enough experience and skills to effectively run the shop in the absence of the deputy manager and manager.

However, other days of the week do not necessarily have volunteers who are capable of or willing to oversee the shop without the manager or deputy present.

So taking time off on other days of the week would require that the deputy manager be there - and the deputy manager does part-time hours, so isn't present for a significant part of the time. The deputy manager won't do additional hours, so if our manager were to take time off during her normally scheduled hours, it would require some juggling around of the deputy's hours, and mean that she (deputy) would then not be in the shop for some of her normal hours that particular week - and depending on when those normal hours take place (in addition to the Sunday, the manager has two afternoons a week free) the manager might then end up having to cover those afternoon hours, which would then be yet more overtime...

I'm not saying that it's not do-able at all, but working it out seems to involve quite a bit of additional preparation and depending on circumstances, sometimes it's just not possible to arrange at that moment.

OP posts:

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 28/02/2026 19:16

Hmmm. Seems to me that what's really going on here, is that your manager and deputy manager aren't very good at pushing for the backlog of culled books and rubbish to be collected.

If the Sunday staff continued to volunteer even when they considered the basement to be overfilled, how long would it be before either paid staff member bothered to chase up the lapsed collections? I get what you're saying about the manager and dep manager having lots of other responsibilities, but are those responsibilities truly higher priority than maintaining a safe working environment?

And why aren't the other shift leaders supporting the Sunday leader?

RawBloomers · 28/02/2026 18:55

SorcererGaheris · 28/02/2026 18:39

@RawBloomers

I can't think of anyone else who would be responsible for recruiting volunteers to the shop, so perhaps it is fully the manager's responsibility.

It may be that she should be trying o cover a midweek day with volunteers if that is easier to recruit for.

The other days are already covered and Sundays generally are too - except when the volunteers (for whatever reason) can't or won't come in.

Shutting the shop because no one can sort or price things in the basement (which sounds like it doesn’t have to be happening just because the shop is open) seems like a poor judgement call. What is wrong with just having only those needed to run the shop come in on those days?

I am part of the Sunday Team and we all decide not to come in as a matter of principle when we consider the basement to be so full that it's unsafe. The Sunday team are the only ones who make that decision, so the shop is open every other day when the basement is overcrowded, and closes (temporarily) on Sundays until the collection company shows up to collect the crates.

Opening the shop is not possible in that situation when the Sunday volunteer team are choosing not to come in and none of the other volunteers are willing to come in on an additional day to cover.

And the shop is legally not permitted to open unless there are two or more people in the shop, so there'd be no point to the manager coming in on her own - she wouldn't be allowed to open anyway. There is a paid deputy manager, but she won't do additional hours to her contracted part time ones.

It only takes one person to man the till, so if the other volunteers are going to avoid the basement, there would literally be nothing (on the shop floor) for them to do. They'd be standing/sitting around doing nothing, which would be pointless. Jobs other than the till require going into the basement in order to carry those jobs out.

I do get that the manager might not have the training or overall compensation commensurate with the role that’s expected of her.

IMO, she definitely doesn't get a wage compensation that's commensurate with the overall duties that are expected of her.

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The other days are already covered and Sundays generally are too - except when the volunteers (for whatever reason) can't or won't come in.

Then I'm not sure what the overtime issue is. If the other days are covered and don't have volunteers who are as precious about the basement on those days (so come in and the shop can open), she can take her time off then, can't she? She doesn't have to work overtime, it's just that she'd prefer to work midweek and not Sundays (like most volunteers)?

rookiemere · 28/02/2026 18:44

Sounds like the deputy manager has the right idea tbh. Shop manager sounds like she has an impossible job and would be better off working in Aldi for the same money.

Original poster

SorcererGaheris · 28/02/2026 18:39

RawBloomers · 28/02/2026 16:10

If she isn’t responsible for volunteer recruitment then I’m completely with you about it being unreasonable to expect her to cover the day without overtime or, at least, TOIL. But if she is responsible for recruitment then it’s much more questionable.

Yes, some things are harder to recruit volunteers for and may need specific targeting but if that is part of her role and Sundays are important to the shop (and I can see why weekend days could be important and, specifically, why being consistent about them is important) then that’s part of her job she isn’t succeeding at. It may be that she should be trying o cover a midweek day with volunteers if that is easier to recruit for.

Shutting the shop because no one can sort or price things in the basement (which sounds like it doesn’t have to be happening just because the shop is open) seems like a poor judgement call. What is wrong with just having only those needed to run the shop come in on those days? Or is this a bit of a sop (for want of a better word) to the shift leader who doesn’t really want to be on the shop floor and so doesn’t want to come in if she can’t price? Not an unreasonable position for a volunteer, but may indicate she shouldn’t be the shift leader role - again a point of poor management by whoever is responsible for ensuring good volunteer engagement.

I do get that the manager might not have the training or overall compensation commensurate with the role that’s expected of her. (I don’t know - charities do not have a great reputation as employers, but I don’t think they’re actually worse than retail in general, it’s just people seem to think they should be better). However, if her role is to ensure coverage, then she should be doing that whether it means she covers or volunteers.