Ah you're a Catholic!

This is what I first commented on but the Reformation was brought up last night as evidence of my cultural prejudices (I think) which is hilarious as they know nothing of my cultural heritage!
Equally, I thought you could be culturally Catholic like some Jewish people refer to themselves as.

Forced starvation on an entire population?

You should study and then study some more before making statements that make you look uneducated.

Yes, there must be as it is baffling that anyone would explain how a dishwasher works in 2026 unless they were very old so believe it to be modern tech but even then they'd have to be in their late 90s, maybe have Dementia, who knows.

Yeah I suspect there’s a bit more to this story..

Ireland has a long history of Catholic ties.
Most people of a certain age, had grandparents who were religious Catholic.
There is a bit of revival amongst young people, it’s not that far fetched to think that if you were religious you might be Catholic.
Strange that someone would mention it or even give it any thought.

This is bizarre, I'm sorry but where the heck do you live where this is happening in England? Explaining a dishwasher to you because you are Irish?

It's not distasteful if it's your heritage which it wouldn't be in Ireland as the point is there isn't a rich tapestry of diverse enthnicities. You being dismissive of the notion of Britishness not including Jewish Brits by stating the percentage suggests you just don't get it, the cultural memory and identity of many Brits is a mergence of many diverse cultures and ethnicities, not only this Brit the Oppressor that you believe all of us to be!

You referenced generational trauma of people and yes, I certainly think and know there was that from the second world war. Why would there not be?

No one is asserting that Irish history, the Brits colonising it and starving people, the violence that was inflicted on the Irish people can be erased but I think attributing blame on the British now is devisive like the perception of Brexit being a testament to the hate of the Irish. The reality is it was almost a 50/50 vote for and against. London and the South was the biggest Remain vote in the country. Oxford was about 70% Remain, Lambeth was 79% Remain, Cambridge Remain, Brighton Remain, Bristol Remain. London's population is not far off double the whole of Ireland's. If you throw in the Remain areas predominantly in the south east then your argument that this somehow represents the British pysche is fact averse bilge, certainly not recent evidence of the British arrogance around Ireland. Surely it's better to encourage social harmony than stick with the narrative of the right wing press which is firing up the hate at the moment.

Yes, I think ww2 was worse. And I stand by that.

Nevertheless you said it’s easier for a rich country to move on, and you are now a rich country, so move on? Or is it special rules for you and your suffering is somehow superior and meaningful in a way nobody else’s is..?

For example when the lovely English woman I mentioned earlier who demonstrated her dishwasher to me because we wouldn't have them in Ireland I know what that is rooted in, I felt it in my bones. I know that it comes from the years of British rule and propaganda that we are simple, backwards folk. If I bite back at that and get annoyed at her lazy stereotypes am I going to be labelled as insolent and hot headed, 'throwing a paddy'? Am I just going to be further confirming what she already 'knows' about Irish people? This is just one example of a lifetime of examples.

Like it said even now the effects of British rule inform how we move through the world now, how we respond to certain situations, how we feel in certain situations. It's not so easy to just 'move on'. It's embedded in us.

I don't believe the same can be said for the average British person as a result of ww2.

I'm sure British Jews did. You are talking about 0.5% of the population and using them as some kind Trump card which I find quite distasteful tbh.

I don't believe that the average British persons experience of a 6 year war where Britain was hailed as the triumphant heroes can be compared with the affects of centuries of colonial rule that led to the loss of 25% of the population, incredible poverty, land dispossession, the loss of the native language, degradation of culture, and still sees the country split in 2.

The effects of British rule ran so incredibly deep and probably even contribute to why this thread was started.

British rule for instance through cultural, legal and religious marginalisation of Irish Catholics led to awful stereotypes of Irish that were exported abroad. British colonial propaganda often portrayed the Irish as indolent, undisciplined, or prone to violence. Centuries of colonial policy that denied land ownership, education, and political rights helped create a narrative abroad that Irish society was “behind” more “civilized” nations. British authorities often used the “Irish problem” as a cautionary tale abroad. Newspapers and officials described Irish unrest, famine, and poverty as evidence of supposed Irish deficiencies. In 19th-century U.S., political cartoons depicted the Irish as ape like, violent, or drunk, imagery often rooted in British propaganda during famine and uprisings. This kind of thing stays with you and informs how you move within the world today. Jewish people too have had to fight against propaganda and stereotypes. Tell me how ww2 had anything like that effect for the average British person?

It just isn't comparable for so many reasons that I would take up a whole thread detailing them.

Yes, I do think the impact of generational trauma existed for those in the second world war. Do you think that British Jews did not experience generational trauma?

Very odd thing for people to assume.

I've got Irish ancestry but was told a self proclaimed Irish expert who was English that the place name my family was from couldn't be correct as he knew it wasn't. I'd been and taken photos of the sign. He soon shut up.

Do you genuinely think that the effects of ww2 in the UK can be compared to the effects of British rule in Ireland?

Hardly rigid, you have a considerable lack of self awareness there! My points are relevant and justified but you don't want to acknowledge them as you prefer to stick to your limited view of the real world.

You don't think the second world war caused any generational trauma? What about the British Jewish community do they qualify for meeting your threshold of generational trauma from the second world war?

@Goldenbear This is a pointless discussion, you have a rigid view that you’re not interested in exploring and I can’t stand it when people pretend not to understand clear points to obfuscate. Let’s just leave it here

I don't think it is 'hatred' tbh. I think the ignorance of 'the man in the street' doesn't help, like the poster who thought comparing a war to centuries of occupation and repression was a fair equivalence, the 'get over it' attitude when the occupation still affects Ireland to this day. The minimisation of what Britain put Ireland through isn't very likeable. Things like Brexit where a huge decision was made by the British people with zero regard to a peace deal probably don't really help either.

Day to day we don't go around with pitchforks angry at the Brits. Most Irish people have English relatives, English friends, English neighbours etc. About quarter of a million people in Ireland were born in the UK. Nobody is going around hating them all. I can't think of a single British person that I hate.

Nobody likes a pompous attitude though and 'we moved on nicely' why can't you from a former colonial power to the people still dealing with the effects of colonialism is never going to go down well.

Yes and?

It is you who have misunderstood my point as I am responding to your earlier post of justified hatred of the British. The generational trauma and the impact of the British rule should be acknowledged and people should be educated on it but complex social realities of British heritage makes it morally questionable to attribute collective responsibility based upon 'British' ancestry.

That is recent as I presume you know

Ireland is a rich country the GDP per capita is more than double the UK figure.

It’s not ignorance, you’re misunderstanding what generational trauma means in this context. It’s an event or series of events everyone in the country were subjected to at the same time. Like the troubles, or the pandemic . Do you not see how generational trauma arises from those events? It’s about a population, not an individual. Individual generational trauma is not what we’re talking about, so throwing out examples of individuals who fled dictators or were abused as children won’t be relevant to the conversation, you’ll be wasting energy doing it.

I’m English, but descended from Irish people who were forced to come here in the 1840s. I had relatives return and fight in the Easter Rising, and I feel very proud of them. I understand the generational trauma of Irish people though it’s not something that affects me. What I don’t understand is the hatred of the Irish towards British people today. Direct it towards the British institution by all means, but not the man on the street. It’s pure racism.

But this comes back to complete ignorance of what it means to be British, there is no knowledge (?) or acknowledgement of it's complex social realities. You seem to think the English are all Morris dancing oppressors when in reality you have cities and towns full of interwoven heritage where they definitely have their own trauma. I have the example of an English person whose heritage is ancestors who were fleeing pogroms or more recently the children of Kosovans who fled the Kosovo war. Only 36.8% of Londoners identify as White British.