To not want DD to become a doctor

Sorry missed this. My grandmother born 1913 went to St Andrews in the eatly '30s. They finished a year early because of the war, got married to another Dr in 1940 then he went off to war she worked as a GP while having my aunt in 1941, must have been incredibly tough sadly she died when i was 1 so I never got the chance to get to know her- I knew her sister well.

My Aunt born 1941 followed her parents in the late '50s, I went in 1994.

It sounds like she isn’t decided herself so I highly recommend she talks to some in different areas, etc. not at university open days either as they have to be positive.

my husband was a doctor and really didn’t like it, left as soon as he could and many of his friends have either left or are stuck but going down to part time or switching specialties. My husband saw some really difficult things during his years of training and had to have therapy and it still comes back to him at difficult times of stress, despite not working in it since the pandemic when we have had health concerns with our son it has caused him a lot of difficulty as he essentially ‘knows too much’, it can impact in ways you wouldn’t expect and I think potential doctors are not warned enough. Neither he nor any of his friends (some of which dreamed of the job from a young age, others who come from a line of doctors, etc) would encourage their children into the line of work based on the mental load, struggles of the nhs, terrible terms of constantly relocating (eg hardly any of them own property despite being early 30s and being able to afford it as they have had uncertainties over contracts), and general stress of having to constantly take exams.

I know it’s early, but if she is likely to want a family one day there’s a lot to consider there too in terms of workload, timing, and contract terms after maternity

there are of course lots of doctors who enjoy their line of work, but I would encourage her to have honest and open conversations as if she does go that line, it’s important she goes into the right speciality for her

Maybe doesn’t have the same level of prestige but if you get to SCS1 you don’t have bad odds of getting an OBE which gives a level of parental bragging rights. I know several friends and colleagues who’ve got honours.

I wanted to do medicine my whole life until I did work experience in a hospital aged 17. I got good enough A Levels and did a social science degree at oxbridge instead. I joined the civil service fast stream at 21 and was on £50k by the time I’d have graduated from medicine. By 30 I was on £70k and in my late 30s I’m on over £100k (by a whisper - with my pension contributions of 7.35% taking me under for childcare)

The employer pension contribution is nearly 30% and after a stint in private office in my 20s the hours are much, much better and more flexible.

If she’s interested in a sense of making a difference and interesting work I’d recommend it. I could earn more in the private sector but I love knowing what I am doing is genuinely helping - even if that is just carefully steering ministers away from more out there policy ideas.

The junior doctor years aren’t fun, but afterwards it is a very nice job (depending on specialty of course). Mostly shift work, but otherwise well paid, good pension, ok work hours.
She also doesn’t have to work for the nhs, there are plenty of office jobs for medical graduates if she wants a more 8-5 job.

We need doctors. It needs to be something you really want to do. Encourage her to get some work experience, and if she still feels it's her calling, support her all the way. If she goes into it understanding what it entails and the impact studying medicine will have on her life as a young adult, then she should do it if she wants to.

She's only young. She needs to get some work experience, which will be expected for medicine anyway. For all you know, she may end up loving something completely different within healthcare, e.g. radiology, palliative care, mental health nursing, etc.

which banding bits £100k ? I tbink you would need to be a consultant for a while these days to hit £100k

certainly unlikely at 40yo

and how many doctors actually do regular private work?
Most are GPs. And they Earn what they earn - very much depends .

hospital doctors - many don’t do private work as it is expensive to offer. With staff / office / insurance costs etc

and for what they earn and how much debt they end up with I dont see how it is worth unless you planning a move to the Middle East or Australia.

Never been said @OhDear111. Not once by any doctor. Ever. Not one has said they worked the hardEST. You don't seem to like doctors (or teachers) v much.

@AgeingDoc I think girls seem to be less keen on physics. Engineering requires physics and many engineers won’t get close to what a Dr can earn. Private medicine really bumps up earnings. It’s fairly obvious that girls still tend to go for caring roles like nursing. If they take physics though and not biology/chemistry, they can be engineers. It’s a wholly different world though.

Other people do work really hard with long hours. Doctors seem to think they are the only ones who do. It’s a very insular echo chamber!

It's a bit out of date ! Fortunately hours have now been restricted to just stupid rather than dangerous.

Only if they make consultant. There are current enough jobs for a large amount of doctors to never reach that stage these days.

Relax, she's only year 10! Plus medicine is ultra competitive, so most students end up being forced to take an alternative route.

I'm a doctor. I wouldn't actively encourage a young person into it, but I wouldn't actively discourage them.

I think it's important that they have an eyes open view of the profession (even though the reality is often very difficult to get across to a teenager). Working conditions can be pretty horrific, you're signing up to a lack of control over your life for most if not all of you 20s and 30s - especially with regards to location which can have a wider impact on relationships. You're looking at doing expensive exams throughout your training that you'll need to balance alongside work and family life. Patients/the public has an increasingly hostile view towards doctors/healthcare staff in general - is she going to be able to cope with that (I've got friends who no longer introduce themselves as GPs when meeting new people socially for example). Hopefully the new prioritisation bill coming through will help with training bottlenecks but there are still issues with scope creep, competition ratios for higher training and consultant posts.

I'm also not entirely optimistic about the long term survival of the NHS.

That said - if you find a specialty you like and that suits you it can be a brilliant career. There is a certain level of survival until you reach that point through (as somebody who developed significant mental health issues/burnout). The book Also Human by Caroline Elton is very interesting.

You also don't HAVE to be a practicing doctor just because you went to medical school. It's a respected degree that opens lots of doors and I have a few colleagues who have left medicine and are now really happy in academia, law, tech and even woodworking and an actor. Medical school is tough but I loved it.

I wanted to be a doctor for as long as I can remember but I do regret being so focussed and not exploring other career options so I'd advise her to keep an open mind.

I'm a doctor and I wouldn't try to actively persuade anyone to do it. I was quite relieved that none of my DC showed any inclinication to follow in my footsteps to be honest. However, had they wanted to I wouldn't have tried to stop them, but I would have done my best to ensure that they, as far as possible, knew the reality and were making an informed decision.
The problem is that people often have quite a romanticised idea of medicine, fed by tv shows, books etc and it is still a relatively well paid profession with a fair bit of status. So if a young person shows interest and aptitude they often get encouraged by parents, teachers etc. It seems like a good thing to aspire to, and there is certainly reflected glory for schools. Though it is perhaps not as marked as when I was at school I think there is still a tendency to steer girls who are good at STEM towards medicine/vet medicine and so on rather than engineering etc so there can be quite a bit of subtle pressure on clever girls to take this path. I think the pros (and of course there are many) do get promoted and the cons tend to get brushed under the carpet a bit by careers teachers etc.
She is very young still and may well change her mind half a dozen times between now and starting university. I would encourage her to pick a broad set of GCSEs and keep as many doors open as possible. Use the coming years to find out as much as she can about medicine but also other careers so that by the time she is picking A levels she has a clearer idea. Even at that stage she doesn't have to nail her colours to the mast - lots of options follow on from science A levels.
So I would neither encourage or dissuade at this point, but explore. Year 9 is, in my opinion, too young for most to have a really clear idea of what adult life is like, nevermind what profession they want to commit to. Keep her options open.

Btw @HoskinsChoiceim referring to your comment re 6 figure salaries for doctors.
thats rare now.
and given the hours. And the a level results required and the level of student debt I’d suggest a stint in banking or sales would be a much better career investment.

Watch the BBC series This is Going to Hurt with her and she can make a decision after that

I tbink you are out of touch with modern doctoring in the U.K..

many doctors will be lucky to break £75k before they are 40. And I’m talking about those born in the 1980s.

it’s worse now.

yes my generation had the opportunity to get more and grabbed private gigs. However for many the private gigs are not worth the hassle and research alongside no longer pays out - at least not before 45.
many of those born in the 80s will rely on the bank of mum and dad to purchase family homes.

it’s a good reason why so many consider staying in Australia after a few years there. Because they can earn a helluva lot more than here but they are a long way from home.
(as in AUS$1m when the same doctor is on less than £80k in the uk - yep. True story)

a lot of doctors earn nothing like that.... I'm working 60 hours this week and will never earn 6 figures. Just one of the many misconceptions about working in medicine.

'Not very well paid'. Are you taking the piss? Are you genuinely not aware of a full time salary putting you in the top couple of percent of the population? And that the pension is absolutely outstanding?

One of the issue with doctors commenting on things like this is that they have never seen anything else. They start life in the NHS and stay there so they have very little understanding of the economy outside. That's not a criticism. Why would they know? It's just fact. But, claiming doctors are badly paid well and truly evidences a complete lack of knowledge of workplaces outside of the NHS.

Well it's hard but if every parent disuades their kid from becoming one, how does that work at a societal level? Surely what we need are enthusiastic, motivated, passionate young people moving into medicine WHILST also improving the situation for our current and future doctors?

My neighbours are doctors - their advice when one of my DCs was young was to do it and enjoy it but know that you don’t actually have to go onto practice medicine afterwards. There are research pathways, medico legal jobs etc

They both said they absolutely loved the course and their time at university (and both do love being GPs now, but neither felt it was their only option upon graduating).

I’ve also known quite a few who wanted to study medicine who have done the BioChem degree route and left themselves option of doing the 4 year GED route afterwards. Perhaps ask if she’d consider that to keep her options open and allow her time to get some work experience under her belt?

Would love to hear more about the 1st generation if that's not too intrusive. My mum went to London University in the 1950s - did Biology. But was always told female medic entrants were restricted in number and often only accepted if men in the family were medics. She was/is very bright - did research after for a while. Even has her name on a published paper!

It is very hard work, you don't get to choose your jobs at junior level, and it's not compatible with family life. It's also not very well paid, and opportunities for private practice are declining in many parts of the country.
But..... if a young person is academic, personable and willing to make the effort, it can still be a rewarding career. She needs to research all the routes to entry, Inc extra exams and voluntary work.
Ultimately, it's the young person's choice and, let's face it, any serious career is going to be demanding.

I’m a doctor and I wouldn’t be encouraging my child to do medicine. it most definitely is a calling and the good days can be so rewarding but they are few and far in between.

the bad days just break you and the longer I do it the more I am staying to regret my choice. I could have done anything at university and done a lot better financially.

I don’t think it’s the same job that kids see in tv- tell her to get real work experience and speak to real doctors before making a final choice.

Doctors on average earn six figures before they're 40. That puts them in the top couple of percent in the UK. There are roles that may pay more but very few of them and to earn six figures in the private sector, it will often mean longer hours, more travel and a considerably worse pension than doctors.

Doctors comparing their work to what they'd like is a world away from industry comparing doctors to other professions.

Frankly if you have the intelligence to earn six figures, you are set for life financially whatever career you pursue. So surely you go into a profession you will most enjoy, not one that may or may not pay a few extra thousand?