To think the new halal and kosher labelling bill is a great idea?

Yeah it's usually prayer played, stunned, slaughtered. But in reality (having worked in a slaughter house) it's a prayer on a continuous loop over the speakers and the slaughter production line doesn't stop.

There's super fancy halal abbotoirs where prayers are individual and there's no stun but the meat is generally much more expensive/ for specific butchers or for export (though not always).

There's also meat which whilst slaughtered with prayer is not considered halal due to "contamination", I'm not sure how the new law would accommodate that?

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm saying the proposed legislation doesn't make it clear enough for the discerning consumer.

Because it's not true. The words are said before the cut is made, the animal does not have to hear it. How would anyone ascertain if the animal has heard it or not?! And it's not a prayer, it's a statement that Muslims say many times a day "in the name of God" such as before they eat, before they enter their home, before they start their homework..

The animal has to be conscious to hear the prayer!
I actually did not know that, but even more of a reason to get this religious nonsense out of Uk slaughterhouses.

But if it’s Halal and it has been pre-stunned, as is so often argued, it’s only a light stun. The animal has to be conscious to hear the prayer. So the animal is still aware of what is happening and will still suffer and feel pain. It’s abhorrent and is unnecessary suffering in the name of religion. I think there needs to be an outright ban on both Kosher and Hallal meat in the UK.

Does everything have to be called bigotry these days? Can no one engage in a debate without throwing around insults and calling everyone racist, like an adult?

I don't want to eat non-stunned meat, I don't know why that's any less valid of a choice than those who only wish to eat non-stunned meat. We're all allowed our own view and to make our own choices with what we eat.

Agree 100%

I think @anon666sums it up, labelling will catch up with consumer opinion or should do.

35% of UK lamb is exported. Even if all of that is Halal it leave a massive oversupply for 6% of the UK population.

In my case I care about both. I don’t want Muslim slaughter practises in the uk as a default.

Because it's not as clear as "wanting a choice" or "animal cruelty" - most halal meat is stun slaughtered and so a clear halal label won't inform the buyer of whether the meat was stunned or not. The religious emphasis of the labelling won't answer the question most people say they care about.

I have not seen this at all and I have been reading about this for months.

Halal is certainly mentioned more in the public domain - shops and products often have Halal written on them so there is probably more public awareness. Some people may not be aware of Kosher - I never see it advertised in my area but regularly see halal.

But the people I have seen campaigning want both stopped. And I agree both should be banned entirely - it’s inhumane.

I brought up religious slaughter with a huge group of friends the other day and a few had no idea - several went home and researched it and are now avoiding religiously slaughtered meat. It’s easier to avoid halal as restaurants often make it clear - which is great as it means I don’t eat there. I have no interest in buying this product for my children (I’m veggie).

The public should get to choose, labelling is important. If halal has been sneakily brought into schools, restaurants etc without clear labelling this is wrong. I will no longer buy school meals.

If kosher has sneakily been brought in that is also wrong - but I am not sure Kosher is being served in schools and restaurants near me. The religious exemptions currently say halal and kosher can be served to those who require it. But it appears that halal is being served in many places to people who do not require it.

Why has this happened? And why has the same not happened with kosher (or has it in your area of the U.K.)?

Why are people asking the same question repeatedly when posters like me have already explained this. Are you not reading the thread?

lol lol..some WORDS in Hebrew / Arabic were spoken before the animal was killed, and the situation needs rectifying? But the meats still the meat..how's it any different from the meat from a normal butcher?!

I'm not sure what your talking about? I have no problem with it being labelled, said on the first page it's a good idea. I have no objection to you or anyone else objecting, just think it's odd that people who don't believe in God think their meat possesses religious qualities once it undergoes slaughter.
What I really don't like though is people objecting under the initial guise of welfare, then go on to talk about lack of integration. If you don't like Muslims just come out and say it.

I don’t understand why so many people, who I imagine are generally against animal cruelty, are happy that we disregard animal cruelty law for millions of animals because some religions demand it.

Religion should have no influence over animal cruelty.

Maybe the same sort of people who are ‘anti racist’ but are fine with anti white racism?

To add, no YANBU, it should be labelled. If nothing else it would make my life at work so much easier when people ask me if something is Halal.

I would assume it is because people don't know it is essentially the same thing. I hear about Kosher salt a lot in (american) recipes, never really hear about Kosher meat.

I haven’t seen anyone say that - who has said that?

I don't care how my meat is commercially slaughtered, as I think the transport and queueing to die is much more traumatic for the animal than the lack of stunning (having worked in an abattoir) however if they're going to change labeling then it needs stone stunned or not stunned (then the usual religious labeling in addition) because over 80% of halal meat is stunned prior to slaughter.

And once labelling catches up with consumer opinion, none of this will be a problem any more.

And I'm intrigued by your angle amd why you hold this position. No Muslim wants this all to kick off and cause further resentment.

They didn't ask for this, it's landed on them as a result of poor recognition of the need for integration. There has been an extremely lazy and "laissez faire" approach to the challenges moving around populations of people with radically different cultures. Which is fine, because most of it sorts itself out.

This is a fairly small example of a tweak in legislation that is needed to correct an imbalance that probably shouldn't have happened, but hey, that's life.

What i dont understand is the "objection to the objection". Telling people they have no right to have an opinion. That's essentially what you are saying to atheists like me, that I have no right to care that I was unknowingly fed someone's religiously slaughtered meat that is against my beliefs. Because deep down, I feel very sad about animal slaughter methods. I'm just as entitled to have beliefs about the slaughter process of the meat in the food chain as anyone else, and to request that that is respected.

If my canteen had clearly displayed a sign saying "all meat is halal" and I had the choice, then fine. I never realised I needed to ask. 😔 Why is that any different to a religious person being fed something against their beliefs, (eg being given pork mislabelled as beef)?

Also yes in the UK I bought my meat at a kosher butcher. I think the London Board for Shechita actually has a policy that they will only sell kosher-certified meat to kosher shops. The only times I ever saw any kosher meat products in a regular supermarket they were imported.

The issue with hindquarter meat is that in order to be kosher the sciatic nerve needs to be removed. This is difficult and skilled and damages certain cuts. In the UK it’s not economic to do, so they sell off the hindquarters.

i would like to point out that in Europe generally there’s a history of religious slaughter bans that have antisemitic origins.

I think the % of kosher consumers in the UK is tiny compared to that of halal ones, and as a Jewish poster pointed out, kosher food is much more expensive so it most certainly would not be in any businesses interest to make meat kosher at source.