To think we are in a relationship?

Is it that you want people on the Internet to tell you it is a relationship and it doesnt matter that he says he absolutely does not consider himself in a relationship with you?

OP what do you want out of this thread?

You asked a question about whether you are in a relationship. Literally every poster has said you are not. The more you’ve replied and described your situation the more posters have said “no”.

You appear to believe you are in a relationship. It is what you clearly wish to believe and possibly genuinely have convinced yourself.

Fine. The entire thread disagrees with you.

What do you want exactly?

The thing is though, I absolutely don’t doubt that he wants me.

Girl. That means nothing. Men will bang a corpse.

He may enjoy having sex with you.

You have a casual thing going. That's it.

But he doesn't want to blend his life with you. He's not proud to show you off to family and friends. You're there as late ng as he wants you there.

If that's all you want, you're good. But chances are he's going to meet a woman at some point that he is not casual about and that will be the end of your casual situation. Or maybe you'll meet someone who can give you more than this guy because this thing, it's superficial. It's convenient and that's what friends with benefits is, convenient.

It sounds like it’s his way of saying he doesn’t want to make commitments. You know he doesn’t want marriage and kids, you seem to be in agreement. You’re neither of you bothered about living together.

I think he’s saying that if things changed for him he’s not committed to maintaining the current level of connection that you have. For example, if he got a job offer in another city he’d feel free to decide independently what to do in his own best interests. That’s not to say he wouldn’t miss you in that scenario, but he also wouldn’t feel that he should involve you in the decision or expect that you’d move with him. And if you did want to move with him, it would be entirely up to you to manage that transition for yourself.

If you have to ask anonymous people on MN if you are in a relationship, you already know the answer is no you're not.

Don't get pregnant or you may find yourself a single mother.

Just keep it casual. It’s either a relationship or it isn’t. If it meets your needs then carry on. If it doesn’t then don’t. You don’t need a label but you do need to be on the same page.

This is the real question I would be concerned with. I'd also want to know if he wanted a "relationship" at some point in his life, or considered himself to have had one in the past. What does he think would be different about your current situation for it to be considered a relationship?

I think there's generally too much concern with labels, what counts is actions and behaviour, not promises which can be broken and labels that can be dissolved at any time. But it's interesting that he takes it to an extreme resistance of labels.

Would you want the same things for the future, eg children/none, living together/not, spending holidays and significant events together/not. That's another question.

Sorry if I’ve missed this Op - do you want to get married/ have children in the future?

I know a couple like this. They’re not ‘in a relationship’ despite doing things together, holidays etc, and having sex. He refers to her as his ‘lady friend’

It’s not that they’re worthless , but not enough at the same time for him it seems .
Yes you guys are great friends , Yes you spend lots of time together , Yes sex is great .
Yet he does not call you his gf OP .

It sounds like there is something about being in a relationship that scares him. He's happy with what he has, but sees a relationship as the next level. Most people in a relationship in their 30s would be thinking about living together after a few years, and that doesn't sound like what you want. It makes me think of a few older couples I've known/heard of who start a relationship later in life, and sometimes get married, but each retain their separate homes.

In some ways it's not dissimilar to some people's rationale for not wanting to get married. They are happy to make lifelong plans, buy a house together, have kids etc but the idea of marriage is a step too far. (Not saying this applies to everyone who doesn't get married, many people have other reasons).

It's a bit unconventional and doesn't completely make sense, but it sounds to me like you have a relationship, but maybe one that isn't going to progress to the next stage of living together. If you are ok with things then so be it. (Although the logic of it would drive me mad personally!)

Bin him

I mean - it seems like he doesn’t see you as his girlfriend and for his family they’re polite and thoughtful and would ring you. But it seems - based on the fact a bit that my in laws would never have said “he’s seeing someone” about me - they would have been very emphatic from meeting them and they’re quite annoying - it seems you’re his current squeeze.

nothing wrong with that either - unless you want to be his girlfriend. I mean if he says you aren’t, you aren’t. If he can’t answer the question he should just say “of course you are” but it seems he doesn’t. At least he’s honest. But I have had people pre marriage that I liked in different sorts of ways but they were never a boyfriend. 2 and a half years with one delightful lover but jayzuz. So NOT a boyfriend. Met my parents, kept me company whe I was quite bored hit not the rollicking love of my life. I even took the poor guy to weddings but he did know the score. I told him! Lovely chap. Not to be seen on the other pillow next to me on my deathbed though. Even if I were single.

Also, a friend of mine did this to a woman. The cooked for him, cared for him, let him stay at hers whenever he felt like. They went on holidays to Portugal and in the uk in the last year of their ‘relationship’ . He still told everyone they were friends even though it was clear they were sleeping together. … He’s now moved on with a woman who he told straight away was his girlfriend. The other woman is on her own looking like a fool.

You can't see the difference. But he can. And it's his opinion you're trying to change. He doesn't want to use the term relationship and that's his choice. You can't force him to change his mind just because you don't agree with him.

The thing is, it wouldn't matter if every single person on here agreed with you that this is a
'relationship'.

He is the only person whose opinion matters and he says its not a relationship.

So it's not.

It doesn't even matter if you can look at it and think, well this, that and the other all point to it being a relationship. He doesn't want a relationship with you.

I’ve asked him a few times how exactly what we are differs from a relationship, and he can’t answer.

It's to do with how he feels. He's more than happy to tick along nicely with you for however long it last, but he knows this has an expiry date. He just hasn't decided when that is yet. But it will likely be when he meets someone he does want a relationship with.

If he doesn’t want to refer to you as his girlfriend, well then I’d be calling it quits .
Like come on , you do everything as couples do together, yet there is some reason he doesn’t want to call you his gf .
I’m guessing whatever it is , you won’t like OP 🤷🏻‍♀️.
I wouldn’t be happy being with someone I view as my bf but he doesn’t see me as his gf !
Fuck that .

If you have to ask the internet I would be very wary.

Ask him outright - if he cant answer or commit straight away you are a FWB.

I would actually say if you dont already know you are a FWB.

He doesn’t love you enough. Plain and simple .

Ive been there, with a fat lazy oaf. I’m now with a perfect man who didn’t think twice about labelling us. You’ll make excuses for it/him though.

I think you need to clarify with yourself and with him, what you want from this relationship and what he wants. His reluctance to say he is in a relationship is a red flag and your reluctance to acknowledge his stance is a bigger red flag. If you are happy with his lack of commitment and don't want more from the relationship, then fair enough. But be honest and don't waste your time if this isn't what you really want.

I think they’d probably just say he was seeing someone.

There you go. That's what you're doing 'seeing someone'.

No commitment.
No relationship.
Just spending time together.

What are these strings?

You think he’s exclusive - but we all know that even in fully declared & accepted relationships, even joined by living together, marriage & children, exclusivity can be abandoned when one person’s head gets turned.
Now think about two people who, by one’s insistence, aren’t even in a relationship - think how much looser the bonds are, how much easier to leave the situation if one’s head gets turned.

My gut feeling OP is that he’s with you for convenient companionship & easy sex, just “for now”, he’s declared exclusivity to keep you quiet, and he will bail the second he meets a woman he has a real connection with.

But I’m only echoing many others, but you don’t seem to want to hear the obvious. So if you’re happy with the situation/non-relationship you keep defending, absolutely crack on! But if you’re not, then follow the excellent advice from PP.

This isn’t really relevant but I have a friend who has been with her “you’re not my girlfriend” boyfriend for 10 years and had a son with him. At Christmas he gave her 4 ct diamond ring (they were staying with his family in their big house in Sussex) and said while he really didn’t want to get married (he has always been clear about this), he wanted her to have a house deposit in case she didn’t feel secure. The ring is her house deposit. As it happens she owns a house already and has tenants in it but he acknowledges her lack of financial security and also she now has a vast diamond engagement ring. She is open and saying they won’t get married but she has a good career, a sparkly stone, her own home and a man who thinks through the her downsides to his decisions.

if a man won’t admit you’re his girlfriend and you enjoy that, ok, but make sure he’s the sort of man who can see where the gaps in his strategy are for you and your security and happiness.