To think there's a growing amount of people who think food can fix everything?

I didn't say 'most' people and yes, I see trolleys with very little fresh produce. I wasn't presuming that my observations were representative either. And I'm certainly not perfect. I do wonder how you know that fresh foods 'are literally 1/3 of any supermarket'. Is that by volume, area, weight? And how much is wasted (thrown away by the supermarket)?

Oh please. You see full trolleys with no fresh produce? As the poster above said it’s totally normal for people to move around the supermarket getting their fresh fruit and veg, meat, dairy, frozen and then moving onto dried goods.

It’s bizarre to pretend that “most” people do not purchase fresh goods or outrageous levels of junk through your observations alone. Fresh foods are literally 1/3 of any supermarket. Why would the supermarket sell them if only the tiny and perfect population of Mumsnet eat well and the rest survive on rustlers burgers and skips?! 🤨

I'm wondering which supermarkets you go to? I see trolleys full of bread, burgers, crisps, cakes, cereals, biscuits, fizzy drinks... And that seems much the same wherever I shop - although admittedly it's a bit better in Sainsbury's and I don't shop at Waitrose.

On the subject of 'other people's trolleys' I am often surprised how good the things are, as MN set me up to find horrors of upf spilling out of everyone's checkout belt
No matter their class, weight or financial situation, most I see buy a good amount of fresh veg and fruit.

As for ZOE and my earlier posts, I actually carried on watching more of their videos.
And even though I agree that the biome research is extremely exciting, I do feel like I am being played by the hosts. These are very wealthy entrepreneurs and extremely slick about it, and as usual their target purchaser is the middle aged female (75% members are women) with complex dieting backgrounds.

These members finance the research, which isn't surprising to an extent, but test subjects are often reimbursed, not scraped for cash.
Aren't' they clever? lol.

I am not sure where I read about it now, but I was also informed that they sell the personal health data to private health insurance companies in the US. I can't confirm if this is legitimate info but worth looking into if you are a member.

I just feel that there is something every so slightly off with ZOE.
And whilst I love their tips about health and gut science, I can't quite put my finger on why I feel like I am being either patronised or grifted.

This doesn't mean their advice is 'wrong', though.

Same. I can’t believe how badly some people eat with everything that we know these days! We shop at Lidl and just buy real food and cook from scratch. It’s not expensive.

I don't know about 'most people' but I do sneak a look at other people's trolleys in the supermarket and there is an awful lot of rubbish in them. I also see all the fast food places on the High Street and the amount of associated litter at the side of the road. I have to conclude that a lot of people do eat a lot of crap food.

Do you realise how badly “most people eat” though? How?

Pretty sure people like Chris Hoy etc had a pretty healthy diet and a lot of excercise - I certainly think not having a healthy diet is more likely to bring on certain ailments but eating healthily isn’t a total panacea -

No @Itsmetheflamingo, they will probably start banging on about how using WLI is cheating and people just need to eat less and move more ! They still need to find a way to feel superior.

Are ketogenic and plant-based diets not pretty much opposite in what is eaten though ?

Here’s a 2023 source that states - ‘Reviewing the literature, almost all articles concluded that the transition to one of these diets (health-conscious diets of the Mediterranean, ketogenic, and plant-based diets) was beneficial in preventing cancer incidence or reducing progression (transition to metastases), tumor staging, tumor markers, and inflammatory markers’.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10627144/

I 💯 agree! The gym bunnies and their protein obsession- I don’t know how they even shit! And yet they harp on about it constantly, especially when they take to social media.

An orthorexic/ protein obsessed friend said to me just yesterday “I eat loads of fibre! For example for breakfast I had poached egg and spinach” 🤣 healthy? Yes. It has next to no fibre though.

however, life is life and the aim of all people to be eating an optimal diet rather than choosing what they like is bizarre.
I have plenty of friends who eat brilliantly and gym but then once a week go out to an amazing restaurant and drink strong 5 cocktails. Why not?

a couple of them were obese by the way, part of your 30%. They’re actually not obese anymore as they’re on weight loss injections. Nothing else has changed in their lives but I imagine the orthorexics excuse them from
the disgust now their BMi is under 30.

That’s not really true though is it? Chances are good that if you stop smoking, or drug taking, or heavy drinking the last 40 years of your life that you could have a longer halathy life. Bad diet to good diet is very less certain.

This. Its not that it can cure everything OP but I don't think you realise how badly most people eat and yes for them these changes are life changing and will resolve smaller issues like spots and energy that they had issues with.

Perhaps it will make more sense to you if you think of it as eating crap (high fat, high salt, low nutritional value foods, UPF etc) that can cause health issues can shorten your lifespan rather than eating well can lengthen it.

Both the same thing really, they just assume different starting points.

That's not really true.
The papers I have read are from scientific research across the world . There are stats showing a far better response to immunotherapy in patients with healthy guts compared to patients without.

I understand that ideas change- once upon a time fat was the demon but now it's sugar and UPFs.

This is more to do with advances in medicine and research.

Unfortunately I cannot help with that. I’m not the person in charge of access to scientific journals. Maybe you can find it elsewhere with the following information.

The title is: Apoptosis by dietary factors: the suicide solution for delaying cancer growth

Main author: Khan, 2007.

This is true. But its also dangerous to peddle that with healthy food all will be well. UK life expectancy is 83 years for women and 79 for men. So Spector giving us 10 more year means women die at 93 and men at 89. We need to have all the other pieces of the puzzle in place to support that. What is more interesting is that UK's healthy life expectancy is much lower, 62 for both women and men. So this is what needs to change and again it will take more than food (including social networks and support). Another discussion that things like Zoe podcasts dismiss is how costly the healthy foods to get you that extra 10 years are for most family (my kids love fennel and cavolo nero. Fennel is £5 a bulb at the local sains. And that not even organic! CN is also expensive but at least we can afford that regularly). To an extremish example and Zoe specifically, the gut health bundle would cost an individual about £33 a month when you subscribe i.e. 133 down from 180 (Excluding other things we "need" like kefir, good quality dark chocolate, etc). So a family of 4 need to add £132 to their monthly bill (but don't despair. That's 4 fancy measuring spoons with it!). To be fair you can make it yourself probably for cheaper.
And then there is the fact that good food is generally home made, knowledgeably made food. Unless you can afford a personal chef or something, this burden will largely fall on the already exhausted, burnt out women of his majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Thanks Sir Humphrey Appleby!). Increasingly, at least in our area, I see adverts of professionals seeking a second part time "job" to patch up finances so who has the time or energy to buy and make fresh foods and sprinkle seeds and berries on it, then exercise, meditate, drink 17 cups of green tea or whatever latest herbal tea from the amazon? Apologies @Ghostspritz am putting so many posts into one not just replying to you.
@StructuredChaos take the wisdom and leave the additives. I do think there are great things that people like Spector have done, like increasing awareness of gut health and the importance of fibre. But as it typical in our world there is a part that has been kidnapped by the capitalist monster and starts peddling fluff. Do what you can!