To stop nurse from giving me an Iv flush?

And that is quite possible, because as I said I am not medically qualified and asked AI but from what different nurses are saying here, it differs from Trust to Trust so without knowing the specific Trust, the answer has to be that we can't help with the correct answer

A band 4 is a nursing associate, not registered nurse (who start at band 5). Only a registered nurse should be dealing with IV’s, unless things have changed drastically since I worked in a hospital. it doesn’t matter what she is qualified to do in her home country, she would need to pass competencies here.

Please speak with the ward/unit manager about this.

Sorry you’re unwell.

Having spent 2 weeks in a French hospital it was obvious after 3 days who was qualified to do what, It’s basic observation.

No you’re not being unreasonable if she is not registered as a nurse in this country, there are certain nursing tasks she’s not allowed to do. Unless she has an extended role that allows the tasks she is performing, then whether she is qualified in her own country or not, she cannot perform tasks that are not within her job description.

This is overly simplified, as not all trusts allow band 4s to do this even with additional training. The trusts i have worked in, under no circumstances, could they flush. They could insert a cannula and then have to find someone of a higher band to flush it for them. In the end, most areas stopped band 4s from even inserting them, due to the gap between insertion and flushing if no one was available.

I have nothing to add except I am so sorry you're going through this.

Am medical, and it's hard enough to let yourself be a patient, without feeling you have to second guess your treatment in order to feel safe enough to do so.

The strongest advocates I've found in these cases have been the cancer nurses. Presume one will be in tomorrow. Would letting them know your concerns and preference to be left alone help?

I had a PICC line during my chemo and it was so temperamental and delicate that there’s no way I’d have let anyone touch it apart from a chemo nurse. When I was an inpatient they didn’t know on the wards how to flush it and had to get someone from the renal ward next door to come in, then it was blocked at my next chemo. So I think you’re in the right. Feel better soon

Band 4 nurses are registered professionals with a PIN number. What that are permitted to do will depend on each trust.I work in the community and our band 3 health care assistants give insulin which would never happen in the hospital.

@EachandEveryone Firstly sorry to here how unwell you are and I appreciate that being a nurse yourself it must be interesting being on the receiving end of nursing.

I am not medically qualified and so I asked AI and it says:

A Band 4 Nursing Associate or Assistant Practitioner can flush a peripheral IV cannula as long as they have been trained and signed off as competent by their NHS trust.

A Band 4 nurse can flush a PICC line in England — but only after:

• Completing the trust’s PICC/central line training
• Demonstrating competence
• Being formally signed off

On my frequent recent stays in hospital, when approached by a nurse then generally told me what they were about to do, i.e. "we need to sit you up" before engaging, therefore giving me a chance to respond. Sounds like your nurse needs a bit of gentle etiquette training.

Wishing you all the best OP

When my 1st child was a couple of days old I witnessed a nurse picking him up incorrectly -she literally pulled him up to her by his arm. Back in those days wards were run by the Matron; I complained to Matron who instantly banished the offending nurse, thanked me, & told me the particular nurse wouldn’t be allowed on her ward again.
Where are todays Matrons? Seems OP needs a Matron to sort out her problem?

Its starts at 2, band 2 -4 can be HCAs of various qualifications. 2 is also cleaners and porters. Admin can range across multiple.
A band 4 can be a HCA, or a Nursing associate usually these days. a nursing associate has done a 2 year university level course (not a full degree however, its level 4 and 5), and is registered with the NMC. Think between health care assistant and nurse. In the trusts i have worked in, they are able to give meds, but nothing IV. At all. This includes a saline flush. This may vary across trusts, but they require additional training. Some maybe able to flush a standard cannula, but not a long line. Some trusts may allow for long lines with further training. In the OP's case she has stated, clearly, a band 4 cannot flush a long line.

Band 5 is the lowest band for a registered nurse, who has completed a full degree. Some nurses stay band 5 for their entire career, some progess. It will range trust to trust, but where i work it goes up to band 7 for nursing, ward manager, specialist nurses, advanced practioners all 6 or 7. Band 8 is matrons. But most ward nurses you see, are band 5. Band 4s are not ever, fully qualified registered nurses.

I'm a nurse although I haven't worked in a ward for some time so my knowledge may be out of date. But yes I think you are right, I don't think Band 4s can do IVs. They can do almost everything a Band 5 does but not IVs or controlled drugs.
She may have got it a little wrong in her dealings with you, and she does seem a bit full on, but it actually sounds like a good thing she is keeping such a good eye on you. People usually complain about the opposite..that they don't see enough of the nursing staff! I'm sorry you're so unwell 💐

Something no one has mentioned is, if someone carries out a procedure against trust policy and something goes wrong, the trust’s liability insurance might not cover a claim. If the general safety aspect does not make them take notice, perhaps the money angle will!

Where does the omelette come into this?

Different uniform for hca, rgn, charge nurse etc.
I am not up to date with it, but band 4 is in between an hca and a rgn, so I expect there is a different uniform

I don’t know what band 4 in the nhs is, so I don’t understand the relevance of op stating the band and her concerns about it. That’s the part that I’m trying to understand. If it starts at 0 and goes up, a 4 sounds pretty good to me.

There are often notice boards on the wall somewhere with photographs of the different coloured uniforms and what they indicate

It'll be up on the walls. In the entrance, waiting rooms, on the hospital website. You've just been lucky enough to not have a wait long enough to have to read the wall signs.
Her job is patient care and welfare, she isn't doing either well.

Checking the label is all well and good, is he checking it against the prescription??

Go to the nurse in charge, if necessary the ward manager. Thus us why we end up with poor nursing. Patients are entitled to space and privacy. She needs documented training and be signed off, in the UK, ask the band 5 if she has that. In every investigation we find out it started to be practice to have under qualified staff do procedures. It isn't acceptable.

The qualification still stands!
It is the competency of the practitioner that needs assessing when you move trusts!

You could be a b7 who's never hung an IV or a band 5 who does it every day, you're still a RN, but your competency needs assessing!

Absolutely this. It’s not discretionary at all. Only UK qualified HCP registered with the NMC or other professional body can administer intravenous medication. And yes, a flush is intravenous medication.

OP I’m sorry you are unwell and dealing with this, but if you have the energy, I would complain. Not just to the Nurse in Charge, but in writing to the Director of Nursing, copying PALS in.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

If you don’t think she can do something don’t let her ! I’m tired of people agreeing either way anyone on the nhs just because …. If you are uncomfortable get someone else . You did the right thing .

"I read closet xenophobia here" @gototogo alternatively, the nurse could be over-familiar and makes @EachandEveryone uncomfortable?