To be the most shocked about the women possibly involved in it all

I'm really sorry that happened to you. 💐

There was a book I came across a while ago written in 1997 (in the US) which tackled mother-daughter sexual abuse, but it's still not acknowledged much.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=archive.org/details/lastsecretdaught0000rose&ved=2ahUKEwiUu6WwoemSAxWUQUEAHZimBg8QFnoECD0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1j9xs9yU66rnl9s3LxWVwS

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1557085106292779

There is a subreddit though with a sadly quite high number of members:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mdsa/s/mYkWA39t6M

History clearly shows us what people are when they feel safe from consequences.
Every society has had its hedonistic elite that happily committed heinous acts seemingly constantly.

This is that. Every society throughout history has had the same. A protected bubble at the top raping and murdering, orgies and everything without consequence. (Of course such people exist in every part of a society but most don't have the protections that the super rich and powerful do)

I truly fear that what it proves is that this is the ugly truth of human nature. Sometimes I wonder if this what we are as a species, underneath. Just strip us back, tell us we can have what we want, do what we want and our so called humanity fucking vanishes.

@Whereareallthegoodpeople We all need money yes, but these things are unspeakable, billions offered would not make me bring children to be abused and to be part of that

I've seen plenty of horrific things in different workplaces. Not nearly as bad as what Epstein did, but bad enough to make me understand that there are plenty of people who will sweep horrific things under the rug, and behave in an unethical and immoral way, if it means keeping their job and continuing to make money.

@MeganM3 Rose West sexually exploited, used, abused, and was involved in killing young girls over years and it wasn’t because of money alone.

Yes, because that's a different scenario. That's an extremely rare case of a particularly evil woman, who was married to a man who was also extremely evil.

When it's a whole bunch of women who are working for a wealthy man and who are on his payroll, then that's people who are motivated by financial gain.

In the case of Jeffery Epstein I just find it so hard that all these men claim this didn't happen around them now Epstein enjoyed entertaining these rich and famous people and clearly spent a lot of time in other people's company.

Im not really buying we knew nothing about it, those young girls were treated like bits of meet,the morals of these people didn't come into it they probably didn't have any in the first place,all they cared about was money and status.

I cried my own tears around my own sexual abuse a long time ago but I've cried a lot of tears recently for these poor girls just like Rochdale and Rotherham people knew nobody cared about them, children alone who are supposed to trust adults to protect them this world is awful,evil at times of course women commit crimes like this but in this case and many other cases the cause of such childhoods are destroyed by men.

Agreed. We're not talking about normal people.

Probably a Mossad agent ...

Women can be just as bad as men (and Brady might not have been able to do what he did without Hindley, because too many people saw women as "better" than men-then, and in our time, with Vanessa George etc).
Just as some people seem to think terrorists can't be white and British, some people seem to think women are always better than men.
A few years ago someone was talking about men attacking women in our town, but the only people I know who have been hurt said the perpetrators were women/girls, and they failed to react because they had assumed only men hurt people. Not to say that men don't, of course (and I'm well aware the majority of reports are about men), but we need to stop being appalled by the idea of a woman or girl being dangerous, or saying that it is worse for a woman to be evil than for a man to be.

The whole Epstein situation is revolting and I can't even listen or read about the details. However when people are shocked that women were involved it does give the vibe that women are responsible for mens behaviour. Not just in how we present ourselves but the whole "how did the wife/girlfriend let this happen" or that "their mother didn't raise them right" etc.

The majority of perpetuators of abuse in the Epstein files are men, the worst actors were men. Women are one big homogenous group that all agree on stuff and work together, of course there are horrible women. I find the whole thing shocking, the abusers, the enablers, the sheer scale of the thing.

The most shocking thing of all is that apart from Epstein and Maxwell there have been hardly any high profile arrests made. That is simply mind boggling to me, I just can't understand.

Women can be very evil...less often in a directly violent & sexual way, and on average women have more empathy. But there are still sadly plenty of vile women out there.

I think psychopaths naturally congregate around people who they can use. His enablers were also using him to get closer to power and wealth. I suppose it was a gang of psychopaths working together to help themselves by helping each other.

It's everywhere people turn a blind eye- not just in epsteins circles- the grooming gangs enquiry revealed a chils of 12 was SA with a bottle that broke inside her, the NHS nurses patched her off and sent her on her way.... 12 with internal glass injuries and no one thought to raise a concern. I hsve had enough of the human race now

Rose West sexually exploited, used, abused, and was involved in killing young girls over years and it wasn’t because of money alone.

Fucked in the head + evil / bad person + money.

I think more than you'd think. Just look at all the mother and baby homes in Ireland and all the different institutions that have seen significantly harmful cultures take hold in the caring industry or nurseries etc. Women have a history of being quite actively abusive in those settings.

But then you have to wonder if someone like him has the capacity to form healthy relationships. He's very possibly psychopathic or sociopathic. So a "romantic" relationship with the likes of GM would only interest him for so long as it served him and control probably served him better than anything else that other people would expect and want in an otherwise healthy relationship. I've worked with a few women who've ended up as flying monkeys for highly abusive men before and the amount of control that went on behind the scenes was scary and can make women believe they are extremely dependent on someone like that. Or perhaps as someone who's been vulnerable at points, this gave her the opportunity to feel in control herself by harming others which is also a not that uncommon victim response to childhood trauma especially. It's very difficult to know from afar. But in my mind it's like a cult dynamic where he's been the cult leader. I think similar psychologies will apply here.

Yes. I'm not talking about the abusers, but people who convince themselves they're not doing wrong when it suits them. Look at Nazi Germany.

Someone being a victim does not mean that they cannot also be a perpetrator. This is true for women and men. Some of the most prolific male offenders were victims of abuse in childhood, yet they generally aren’t considered to be less responsible for their later actions because of this.

Similarly, ‘bad’ people can also be victims.

There’s the old adage about poison being a woman’s weapon, whereas a man’s weapon is violence. As a general rule, women don’t have the same access to power as men, physically, or institutionally, and a dangerous woman is unlikely to present in the same way as a dangerous man (on that note, a psychopathic women will present differently to a psychopathic male, yet understanding of female psychopathy is poorly developed because the majority of research has been on men). Not being dangerous in the same ways as men is not the same thing as being safe.

@Whereareallthegoodpeople Men, i’m pretty much sick of at this point in my late 40’s, adore my Ddad and Dh is one of the good ones

"One of the good ones" makes it sound as though it's a small specific group. Clearly, the overwhelming majority of men are not abusive and do not rape.

If all true, how on earth could women see children and young girls being abused and hurt and actively make that happen?? Where were all the safe people, why did no one notice and say or do anything?

All the other posts are overcomplicating this.

The answer is money. It's that simple.

People will go along with unethical, questionable, immoral, or illegal things that their boss tells them to do because we all need a job and we all need money.

They seemed to be long term friends. She advised him on how to pushback against the media scrutiny of his original conviction. He allegedly rang her after he was arrested in 2019. He bought her expensive gifts like an Hermes bag but she’s a hotshot lawyer so not exactly skint. She knew the kind of ‘massages’ he liked as it’s referenced in the emails.