To think that stimming (especially destructive or very intense) is potentially not helpful or even harmful in the long run?

Even if it was harmful, it isn't as harmful as the results of what would happen without been able to stim and regulate oneself.
Trying to train someone out of stimming is veering into ABA territory, which is most definitely harmful.

My son is non verbal and a flapper and a bouncer. Mine is skin picking, so it is quite self destructive as it can cause pain and bleeding. But I've been doing it for at least 25 years, so I don't think it will be easy for me to be "trained" out of it.

I’ve seen a lot of advice that stimming behaviour in individuals with autism or adhd is helpful and regulating, however instinctively this feels wrong to me.

The brain is plastic and can be trained to expect certain things and I feel like that failing to redirect ourselves or our children to more healthy ways of experiencing overwhelm is only making stimming worse. And possibly the overwhelm worse in the long term.

this is backed up by several Reddit threads, where people said allowing themselves to stim, made the stimming worse, but the mainstream opinion is to let the stimming happen.

Instead of teaching life skills and how to get through day in an off ten overstimulating world, is it healthier to rely on potentially problematic behaviour as a way of getting by.

I know I’m probably kicking a hornets nest here, but this is not to suggest that ALL stimming is bad or anything like that. We don’t know everything about the brain or our behaviour, so I think it’s good to discuss things so we can work towards helping everyone rub along together. I hope this makes sense.

Yep the brain's plastic to a certain extent.

But the literal reason we have a diagnosis of autism that exists is a recognition that some brains can't be trained in the same way. That's why it's a LEARNING disability.

Because if it were possible, we could train people not to be autistic. And we can't.

Well there isn't much to argue about on that. The therapeutic community is already in agreement with you. Which is why there are millions of therapies aimed at replacing harmful or unhelpful stims with helpful ones. It's literally a whole branch of occupational therapy. It's been my son's focus in OT for years - successfully I'd add.

These would be examples of stimming behaviour that I have witnessed from children close to me. Pacing, spinning, loud noises, jumping, rocking, head shaking. Instead of calming or grounding it seems to create a negative cycle that leads to them doing the behaviour more often or more loudly, violently etc if it’s not interrupted and replaced with a different behaviour.

I do not think these children just not get over it and their struggles should be dismissed. But I don’t think this behaviour is helpful and instead seems to be leading to more harmful behaviour and I worry about the potential harm letting them behave in such intense repetition is for their mental health.

I guess my question is. Just because it looks harmless, it doesn’t mean it is or there aren’t better ways of navigating things that we haven’t figured out yet.

We are animals and if you have a dog that incessantly chases its tail, no it’s not hurting anyone, but do you think that’s good for the dog mentality? Or do you think it’s better to interrupt and redirect to something less repetitive.

I am particularly wondering if intense repetitive behaviour in itself is not good for the brain if that makes sense.

and just because experts are currently thinking one thing, it doesn’t mean it’s right or they won’t change their minds.

Whilst I’m not an expert I have personal experience myself and my husband and family members children so I am not ignorant of neurodivergence.

I agree with @Muffinmam

Im not always the best at portraying my meaning, but of course I would never think it wise or even a good thing to eliminate all stimming behaviour.

I’m simply wondering if SOME stimming behaviour is not good for a person’s mental health due to it being very intense repetitive behaviour (eg pacing, rocking, spinning…) that may create a pathway to MORE intense activity and less regulation and more overstimulation in a child especially (I have seen this happen which is what got me researching and seeing the advice to let them carry on)

im in no way saying all stimming behaviour does this and obviously it will depend on the person

I completely agree with you.

I have a child with the most severe form of autism, GDD and suspected ADHD (GP wanted a sign off from a teacher to confirm his diagnosis).

When my child was a toddler he would suddenly rock so violently that I would get injured. I put a stop to that along with the flappy hands, vocal stimming and walking on tippy toes.

I also found that when he was encouraged to do things like spinning (by his speech therapist) he would go absolutely feral. I told her not to do that because he would get himself into a situation where he wouldn’t stop. She argued that autistic kids like it. So I sat back and let her deal with him. It didn’t calm his nervous system - it put him into a state where his behaviour continued to escalate until the point he would physically injure himself.

At home he would need more and more to satisfy his sensory needs and would run full force into furniture.

My concern was all of his behaviours were preventing him from making friendships as well as preventing him from interacting with the world. His Paediatrician told me that we need to get him out of his world before the age of 9-10. So that’s what I focused on.

I was so successful in stopping his behaviours that new Paediatricians told me they could not tell he was autistic.

He talks (previously he was non verbal), he’s made friendships and he plays with others.

I absolutely refused to lean in to his behaviours. I told him if he felt it necessary to carry on then he should go up to his room and do in private and that he shouldn’t annoy me.

I support him. I’ve given up my amazing career for him. I refused to be home all day with a kid that was non-verbal, who groaned, moaned, yeeped, rocked, self harmed (he used to hit himself in the head), who flapped his arms like a bird and walked around on his toes.

The way you describe your child does not sound like autism at its most severe (and there is no such thing as the most severe form of autism). Likewise, as a PP said, a GP isn’t involved in an ADHD assessment.

I completely agree with you.

I have a child with the most severe form of autism, GDD and suspected ADHD (GP wanted a sign off from a teacher to confirm his diagnosis).

When my child was a toddler he would suddenly rock so violently that I would get injured. I put a stop to that along with the flappy hands, vocal stimming and walking on tippy toes.

I also found that when he was encouraged to do things like spinning (by his speech therapist) he would go absolutely feral. I told her not to do that because he would get himself into a situation where he wouldn’t stop. She argued that autistic kids like it. So I sat back and let her deal with him. It didn’t calm his nervous system - it put him into a state where his behaviour continued to escalate until the point he would physically injure himself.

At home he would need more and more to satisfy his sensory needs and would run full force into furniture.

My concern was all of his behaviours were preventing him from making friendships as well as preventing him from interacting with the world. His Paediatrician told me that we need to get him out of his world before the age of 9-10. So that’s what I focused on.

I was so successful in stopping his behaviours that new Paediatricians told me they could not tell he was autistic.

He talks (previously he was non verbal), he’s made friendships and he plays with others.

I absolutely refused to lean in to his behaviours. I told him if he felt it necessary to carry on then he should go up to his room and do in private and that he shouldn’t annoy me.

I support him. I’ve given up my amazing career for him. I refused to be home all day with a kid that was non-verbal, who groaned, moaned, yeeped, rocked, self harmed (he used to hit himself in the head), who flapped his arms like a bird and walked around on his toes.

I guess my question is. Just because it looks harmless, it doesn’t mean it is or there aren’t better ways of navigating things that we haven’t figured out yet.

We are animals and if you have a dog that incessantly chases its tail, no it’s not hurting anyone, but do you think that’s good for the dog mentality? Or do you think it’s better to interrupt and redirect to something less repetitive.

I am particularly wondering if intense repetitive behaviour in itself is not good for the brain if that makes sense.

and just because experts are currently thinking one thing, it doesn’t mean it’s right or they won’t change their minds.

Whilst I’m not an expert I have personal experience myself and my husband and family members children so I am not ignorant of neurodivergence.

I’ve seen a lot of advice that stimming behaviour in individuals with autism or adhd is helpful and regulating, however instinctively this feels wrong to me.

The brain is plastic and can be trained to expect certain things and I feel like that failing to redirect ourselves or our children to more healthy ways of experiencing overwhelm is only making stimming worse. And possibly the overwhelm worse in the long term.

this is backed up by several Reddit threads, where people said allowing themselves to stim, made the stimming worse, but the mainstream opinion is to let the stimming happen.

Instead of teaching life skills and how to get through day in an off ten overstimulating world, is it healthier to rely on potentially problematic behaviour as a way of getting by.

I know I’m probably kicking a hornets nest here, but this is not to suggest that ALL stimming is bad or anything like that. We don’t know everything about the brain or our behaviour, so I think it’s good to discuss things so we can work towards helping everyone rub along together. I hope this makes sense.

If you’d read my post you’d see where I specifically said that obviously not all stimming is negative. If it’s potentially hurting the children I love them I will speak about it. How is it harmful to speak about whether stimming May be harming mental health. What is harmful is any discourse that doesn’t fit exactly what the current popular opinion on autism or adhd, even if it’s not actually helping the children that are struggling.

may consider not being so rude to someone you know nothing about

I guess my question is. Just because it looks harmless, it doesn’t mean it is or there aren’t better ways of navigating things that we haven’t figured out yet.

We are animals and if you have a dog that incessantly chases its tail, no it’s not hurting anyone, but do you think that’s good for the dog mentality? Or do you think it’s better to interrupt and redirect to something less repetitive.

I am particularly wondering if intense repetitive behaviour in itself is not good for the brain if that makes sense.

and just because experts are currently thinking one thing, it doesn’t mean it’s right or they won’t change their minds.

Whilst I’m not an expert I have personal experience myself and my husband and family members children so I am not ignorant of neurodivergence.