To think that it IS inconsistent to judge men who buy sex but not women who sell it (excluding women who are trafficked/traumatised/acting from financial necessity)?

It's not sexist to point out the effects of a sexist system. Our choices are not free when the system is biased.

It's interesting that you point out crime because I feel the same about a lot of crime. Lack of viable routes into education and employment, high crime rates, compounded by glamorisation of drug and gang culture, absolutely mean that marginalised young people lean into that system and then experience the consequences.

Choice and free will are interesting. I watch a lot of interviews with sex workers, most of whom have been abused since childhood, work with pimps, and were introduced to the lifestyle in their pre-teens. Most say it's a free choice and that they are happy. Would you believe that? Is it insulting or patronising to question that?

I do have a lot of personal experience and I have come out the other end of the 'free choice' idea personally.

Or working for themselves, leaning in to it like any job as that’s what it is for some. A job that earns money. Not managed by any man nor woman. with the capability to tell a man they don’t want to take their booking?

Do some research and stop stereotyping it all.

the OP mentioned those not trafficked, coerced etc etc

Stereotyping? No.

You'll see a lot of women on Mumsnet defending prostitution, and they're generally privileged women who 'dabble', and not at all even close to the norm.

The ones who are the silent majority, who did have traumatised pasts, or were trafficked/coerced into it, who were forced into it as teenagers, who were immensely harmed by it, who struggled with mental health issues, or drug addictions, or were beaten down and harmed by their experiences rather than doing them on the side to support themselves through uni...well, your sort never want to hear about the ugly reality from them.

How very noble of you. I wonder when they’re going to invite sex workers to school careers days, or produce books for toddlers ‘My mummy is a prostitute’, or introduce apprenticeships in how to be a pimp.
So much opportunity there!

I'm thinking that those women who can detach emotionally and see sex work as a business won't be any more dependent on customers finding their "product" attractive and choosing to buy it than they would be in any other type of business. They will know their market and cater to it. If they find there isn't a market for what they are selling, as a business person rather than a vulnerable person, they would find another way to make an income.

I really would like to think the sex industry could be reduced but I believe it is actually growing. (Can't remember where I read that.) And I think WFH on webcams has added another layer to an already huge industry. I'm sure a lot of the people who are now selling sex in that way wouldn't have taken the risks that come with working on the streets or in brothels so the technology has opened the door to a whole new workforce.

I don't understand your point, @hmmmm54321

It seems you're a prostitute? Well, if you're happy about the fact that men see you as a fuck-object that can be rented - who don't see you as a human, but rather an object to be used, then that's your problem.

But it's not good for women as a demographic to have other women insisting that prostitution is grand. Men who are happy to purchase and use women's bodies are misogynistic and dangerous, and women who willingly prop them up are also causing harm.

Quite the stereotyping pro I’ll give you that.

No trauma here. Just didn’t come from a family that had ever gone to university and wanted to make something of myself. And support my parents who were elderly and had worked hard all their life (had a family later in life) so they could have some financial relief, not have to worry about helping me financially. And I could help to look after them when qualified.

Didnt think much of men at that age people were. Lost virginity late compared to many. Didn’t sleep around. Just wasn’t that impressed or interested with men and sex to be honest. Had great male friends and had one or two nice boyfriends for short stints but they just seemed to be more of a chore than what had plans for in life. Maybe that will come later.

No denying there is some sort of trauma for many and trauma may be categorised in differing ways.

Throwing fellow women under the bus to prop up a man? It’s not the 1950s 😵‍💫

So you stripped and webcammed? Lmao.

So basically, you dabbled your toes into the sex industry and giggled about how empowered you were by showing off your body to men who couldn't touch you? You didn't rent your vagina out to be penetrated multiple times a night/day by the penises of potentially diseased, definitely unappealing men? Or suck those penises?

Hm, I'm not sure you really have a dog in this fight. 'Webcamming' is not the same as prostitution.

This is why the term 'sex worker' is so misleading. We end up with little Miss 'I Webcammed' thinking she's the same as a 17-year-old girl being vaginally penetrated by men old enough to be her grandfather five nights a week for a relative pittance.

There are many ex-prostitutes who support the Nordic model.

They are working within a misogynistic system - they have just decided to lean into it and try to gain from it after a lifetime of conditioning. The phrase 'don't hate the player, hate the game' comes to mind. Even when rare girls and women do freely engage in sex work they are usually managed individually or in a group by a man.

The world is set up for differently for men and women. The ‘happy hooker’ type of women is so rare it’s almost not worth mentioning, but even then it’s hard to judge them in the same way as I would a punter as they are still putting themselves at great risk from every interaction in a way then men aren’t.

I’d also say that not one man knows for sure if the sex worker he’s using has been trafficked, coerced, is there due to trauma or desperation, or is a ‘happy hooker’ type yet still goes ahead and uses that worker regardless. That will always be worse and incomparable.

Selling blood. They shouldn't be allowed to sell blood. Or spare organs. Or babies.

(Or their bodies).

And the same goes for men.

Of course a woman who chooses to sell sex for financial gain is morally questionable.

It brings women down as a whole and reduces us to commodities et etc.

But given that these women do very well financially and probably out of view of the taxman as well, then I doubt they’re bothered.

In the end, money rules.

In the scenario that you provide in your post: No, you're not being unreasonable.

I do think that's really quite rare though; the vast majority of women who voluntarily engage in sex work will have suffered some kind of trauma that's affected their boundaries and their relationship with their body and sex, even if they don't admit to it.

But I do think that women can willingly prop up harmful industries and engage in anti-women behaviour - all you have to do is look at all the women who support trans issues to see that. Women are all too often like turkeys voting for Christmas - they'll throw their fellow women (and themselves) under the bus to prop up a man.

He was a looser predator who used his position of power (in his industry) to get his way sexually with women if he could get away with it. I mean look at the man and the bad press he got for his whole persona and entitlement he felt he had in life. I don’t think even his wife was there for his charisma or looks to be quite frank.

So you’d put full blame on say the corner shop that sold the vapes, alcohol and cigarettes or even just fast food or even just food (if we’re really going into it). To people going in to buy it that have an issue with any of those things. And really ought not to. Simply because they sold it?

Lets not over dramatise all of the sex industry as in effect being ‘drug dealers’?
Like said in post above, many who do sell sex or are classed as working in the industry aren’t hanging out on corners of weak men’s houses, putting ‘special offer’ leaflets on their car windscreens/doors, or contacting clients hounding them by txt enquiring if they’re in the market for a quick (sexual) fix.

I’ll put a different spin on it. I’m in the medical negligence legal profession and dabbled in Escorting / or prostitution (I think you’d prefer that reference OP) while going through my lengthy studies.
(F2 training in medicine and then Law).

Yes I had sexual contact with majority. Alongside being tour guide that could flirt and make them feel special (if that’s what they wanted while in town). Dinner date companion. One even became long time friend (handicapped very successful businessman in his own right, who I ended up cooking dinners for). LOL
Some socially stunted in the dating arena and seeked companionship (why not, sometimes it gave them confidence to get out into the world after). Some were widowed. Divorced. Couldn’t deal with commiting themselves to another romantic relationship in life. Some married (those that mentioned this and had no qualms mentioning it in a certain way, I’d tend to decline repeat bookings, because found it crass to be mentioning it at all). Some were older business types never settled down, maybe over worked travelling here there and everywhere and or played the field dating it seemed in multiple countries whilst chasing a career, rather than commitment, and wanted a date without the faff on the odd occasion. I suspected a fair few were in some sort of ‘we live separate lives but co habit’ type scenarios but never pried.

In society I don’t think I’ve heard of men who buy sex being judged more so than any sex worker. Usually it’s the sex industry worker that would be, if it were to become known, more so. A man can go about his business and not be judged so much but as being, well, just a man. (Not saying all men participate in the sex worker/cam/only fans sphere / industry).

Of course they would be judged if married and found out.

But you have to remember those men have gone out their way to do that. They’re not being honey trapped into it. They are specifically seeking to pay women for sexual gratification. Check out some of the review sites some men who do it prolifically and applaud each other of their conquests describing women in pretty worrying language. Language I’m sure would shock their family round the table at dinner and wonder who the hell they thought they were living with, with the things that are typed out from their at times concerning minds when you read it.

But like I said not all men who partake in it are like that.

Women in that industry aren’t hanging round married men’s homes or work places touting for business. They’re simply choosing a way to make money for whatever reasons (and many who want to use the money legitimately to help get a mortgage, pay for studies, etc you’d be surprised pay a fair bit of tax).

I didn’t read the full thread to its entirety you mentioned. But if an ex worker within that industry perhaps was worried their friend dating a man who has history of seeing sex workers where it seems an addiction, isn’t going to be faithful to her friend and knows it potentially would risk her friend. Or they are a potential hazard (as some men try to pay women or even male sex workers behind partners backs whome offer sexual services with no protection, literally!). Or are clients who have been known to mention they are into worrying sexual interests and activities (ones that pertain to a sex worker never wanting to see them again and potentially warn others in the industry to worrying behaviour) that would 100% make me judge those sorts of men who buy sex not the women who sell it.

Sex work has been on this planet since as long as we can remember. Men and women having affairs with neighbours, work colleagues, people they meet on their commute. It’s hard to say what’s worse or can be judged more. Those that seek to cheat on their significant other in a transactional way, or those that do it with people they create a relationship with in their day to day life.

I’m guessing you’re married. I’m not. And of a certain age that most are at my age. Do I view men differently and am I wary of them or judge those that frequent sex workers to a point it is damaging to those in their personal life, at times yes. That has probably made me not want to settle for anyone I can see the tell tale signs of a potential addiction or too much activity in viewing or has potential signs of paying for services within the sex industry even if they were in a committed relationship with me.

But there’s also many marriages that are beyond the honeymoon phase and don’t engage in certain parts of a relationship later on (men and women) and openly or underlyingly have an agreement of what goes on to keep the commitment in other respects going, then that’s that.

Every scenario is different.

There is a double standard for sure. Women are often assumed to be the victim in the game.. Nowadays with OF etc there is plenty of willing participants who have made selling sexual acts glamorous again, sex sells, sex is addictive, it is the only situation where we blame the addict and not the dealer.