To feel like I am being demoted?

I am confused why they ask you to reply through the recruiter? When we advertise a role at work we advertise internally and also hand the post to a recruitment agency. I doubt your company will pay a large fee to accept you so the recruiter might have discouraged you applying as they want a newbie so the get the fee. Unless I misunderstand the situation of the new vacancy.

This so sounds like a situation I witnessed when they already had someone in mind and had to go through the recruitment process to show non bias. Xx

Ok then this is likely jusg a line management change, this new person comes in, manages you and is responsible for building b, your responsibilities stay rhe same, you continue to manage your team, but now report to the new person, who then is part of the management team reporting to your current manager and they have over sight of a and b.

you need to clarify, but from what you’ve said there is nothing unusual here, and nothing to indicate you are being moved off current responsibilities and made a sole contributor.

This is very true. I’ve worked in HR a very long time and it’s constantly threatened but I have never had anyone do
it successfully. People believe wrongly that organisations can’t grow or require different things and assume blind loyalty to individuals. Why would you promote someone if they don’t have the skills or experience you need? Manager sounds like a wet weekend but it doesn’t sound like much is changing beyond reporting line. If anything the fact the department is growing sounds good. But clearly OP has options. However applying for a role they only have a bit of experience in doesn’t seem an obvious way forward. Not everyone can get to the White House.

Weirdly I am in pretty much the same position except they have rewritten my job description and offered me redundancy or the new role which has less responsibility.

Also told me not to apply for the higher level new role.

I suspect your meeting next week may be to give you the choice of change of role or redundancy. Sorry you are going through this too but make sure you think about what you want out of this (better package, trial period to buy you time, training for a more senior role, better job title to put on CV etc) and put it forward.

Apply but get your CV out there and on linked in.

Don’t listen to the external recruiter! They have a vested financial interest in placing a new candidate.

Apply explain all aspects of the job description you’re doing already but in the meantime get your applications done asap.

Don’t do this op. You need to seek clarity first.

firstly it is not unusual to have another manager to manage two areas and you and your team are one of those areas, you still have line management.

it is odd if the only thing your manager does is manage you. But this seems to be the new person is focused on building b, and manage you, who manages a, and they then have the over view of both. Your current manager, who becomes your one up has a wider view of more than just a and b, surely they do more than manage you.

the new manager then reports on both to your manager, as such your responsibilities don’t change just your line management,

if they make you a sole contributor then you’ve got grounds, but I’m not sure that’s what’s happening.

so don’t go in demanding, but do clarify is this just a line management change or a change to your responsibilitities.

Which of course might be exactly what they want. I wouldn't do this. They will be well aware of this risk because the line manager knew the OP would impacted and outsourced the hard conversation. He should be the one going, tbh.
But that threat will make no difference and they might use it as a basis for redundancy or rationale for all sorts of decisions. Best not to make any threats. Just think strategically for yourself.

Does your manager only manage you?

The bar for constructive dismissal is very high. Highly unlikely this situation comes anywhere near it. Having functions taken away or external candidates taking on established roles would come no where near the criteria. You are talking about things like being required to do unsafe work, bullying, significant changes to your contract like change from day to night working without consultation. It has to be so 'serious' that you can not continue to work there. The burden of proof is on the employee too.
I wouln't be considering this as an option.

I wouldn't quiet quit. It is very easy for you to get a poor reputation in an industry. People talk. Showing you should have got the job or they recruited the wrong person might be a small win, but they are not going to rush into saying how they got it wrong. It will just reflect on you. You are going to feel pissed off about the situation but retaliation through doing the minimum etc can easily backfire and whilst it might make you feel good for a while it's not the right strategy and it actually creates a synical mindset that is hard to get out of. Apply for the job, get feedback on why you didn't get it, if you don't. When new person comes in work with them and become valuable to them so you can learn from them in Area B. When you have maximised this then apply for other jobs. You are going to be at your current workplace until you leave so get the most from it. Showing someone senior how to do their job when you didn't get it is rubbish, but it happens regularly and reacting positively while you plan you exit isn't a sign of weakness. It's acting straregically for your benefit. Good luck.

Apply because the OP is not sure of why senior managment went for a new hire rather than her.

It could be they have decided her face is nolonger a fit and the long term plan is to manage her out. But first they need to hire and train her replacement.

If the new hire is not a (massive) impovement by way of skill set the management have to justify the hire and the constructive dismissal.

The OP should be job hunting but should apply for the internal job too as its an interview and a hostile one at that.

I’d still apply - I’d put in an absolutely glowing application in and make them sweat.

I would also start a paper trail - I’d say that you understand from discussion with the recruiter and subsequently with himself on x date that he doesn’t see you in that role but that you have considered the job spec and your skills and that you will be pursuing an application and that you hope you will be given a fair opportunity in the application process for the role.

It sounds like your boss has told the recruiter not to proceed with you? How would they really know until they had your application?

also, as an internal candidate, shouldn’t you get an interview in any case? That’s the rule in our place.

if you aren’t successful at getting an interview, please ask for their marking criteria and scores.

this really stinks but applying will at least give you some evidence.

Apply for the job and if you don't get it I would be looking to move on. Is the job description what you actually do in your current role? If so I don't see how they could NOT give you an interview.

Given your manager has said he doesn't see you in the role, I think I would not apply. I would start looking for other jobs though. There is something going on with him that he doesn't feel able to tell you, which is crap really, since you can't then work on it.

Either way, I'd feel disconcerted and demotivated.

Why apply for role that they dont want you to have?

Its harsh, but they want someone new with experience in B.

Try and reframe it, someone else will be taking all the responsibility from you, for just 4k. Your money doesnt change and use the spare time you'll have to look for something else if you really want to.

@constantlylactating given that the wimp
of a manager couldn’t even face an honest conversation with you about your role and got a third party to discuss it I’d never trust a word out of his mouth going forward.

have you copies of all annual appraisals etc you’ve undergone?

im not sure if legally they can tell you not to apply for a role especially when you actually do tick boxes and already undertake most of it.

have you access to HR? I’d definitely contact acas pronto.

So sorry to hear this. It happened to me too. Hard facts is that anything you do it wont change their minds. Hang on in there and look for something else if that's a viable option. All the very best.

I would just say it’s worth being honest with your manager when you speak to him. Tell him outright that if this goes through and you don’t get the job you are leaving. The “flight risk” of other key staff is often taken into account in hiring decisions, so you never know.

I’m sorry. Yes, you are being demoted and given your manager does not support you I don’t see a real future for you at this company. It happened to me, it’s really shit. By all means talk to ACAS and apply but I doubt you’ll get far with either. I’d focus most of your energy on getting out there and finding another job while you can still put head of department on the CV.