Are you now more likely to vote for REFORM (the party)

It was the OP who said they had to go back to work and paying taxes rather than engaging with their own thread

This thread was clearly not started for discussion purposes.

I shouldnt have derailed the conversation. It was more in response to another poster being told she was a drain on the hard-working, by people who seem to spend every waking hour on the internet
Most people I think are doing their best and that includes builders and office workers and people working from home. It's the attacking of whole groups by the likes of Reform Í don't like.

I think I've probably misunderstood you - apologies for that. I do think the overall point should be that nobody should judge how hard another person is working. My DD works in hospitality while volunteering her way to the experience she needs for the job she really wants. And although she has slow periods at the cafe where she works, she absolutely does work hard. I think we're mostly in agreement here.

I do work hard BTW. I'm sure lots of people on here do. I just also know for a fact that many people claiming Universal Credit also work hard, or are carers or can't work for reasons of disability. And I'm not angry at people on flexible hours or WFH or maternity leave or sick leave. If I was angry at those groups and posting about it all day every day on Mumsnet, I'd be a hypocrite.

Well yes, like me.
I work in a well paíd job that allows me to take sick leave and balance my workload as I see fit. Yay me. I don't think that makes me a bad person. I just don't delude myself that I earn more than someone on minimum wage because I work so much harder. But if I was complaining that I earn high wages because I work 60/70/80 hours a week and still have to fund UC for people who are working but not earning enough to pay their own housing. Or posting everyday that people on disability were scroungers. Then the fact I was intereñet foraé so often would be relevant as maybe I'm not as hard working as I think. Compared to say a hospital porter on UC.

Well, quite. Anyone who thinks Reform will support ordinary workers is at best extremely naive.

If you feel you have to change your name to ask this question, you already know what the skew of answers will be.

There won't be any of that if Reform get their way.

Tellingly, no comment whatsoever.

The great repeal bill will just attack workers and renters and further enrich Reform's backers.

They are not looking out for us. They are looking out for their billionaire backers.

There are these things called 'breaks' and 'flexible working'. There is also this thing called 'annual leave', which I am on this week. The 'skivers and strivers' narrative is alive and well, I see.

And night workers do work very hard. People in care homes, factory staff, security. All essential. Also mostly in a wage category that would have them labelled a "drag on the economy" by people on this very thread.

You can't have pages insulting lower paid workers and praising CEOs and then sneer at "office bods".

No, í specifically said I didn't mean anyone on this thread. But you don't have to look far to find examples of people posting about how they work 60 hour weeks in high paying jobs and if they can do it why can't others blah blah.
I worked in restaurants a lot. I wasn't a high tax payer at the tíme. Most of the people working in restaurants aren't except for the chefs. Who do work exceptionally long hours and earn their wage. Maybe oil rig workers who are 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.
But generally speaking the sheer number of people posting all day through the day who apparently are also high flying business people who pulled themselves up from nothing doesn't make sense. Even if for 1/2 individuals it does.

See also the numbers of men online who claim to be ex-special forces. If they were all telling the truth we would have the largest army in the world.

It's is being used on MN to attack 'the Left'

So all of us on shift work etc, those working in restuarants ( mon afternoon is hardly busy then) or night workers probably aren't " hard working" Hmmm

Obviously an office bod

If its any consolation people constantly posting, during the working day, almost every day that people on benefits are scrounging of of hard working folks like them** etc probably aren't actually "hard working net contributors". Or they keep very odd working hours... So I wouldn't take it to heart

**I don't mean anyone on this thread. Just a general rule. If í wasn't of sick I wouldn't be posting on a Monday afternoon either

@Decisiondecisions

Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms.

Any comment?

How distasteful. My husband served his country and is disabled for life because of it. He certainly never "gave up and wanted something for nothing" I work supporting others who are vulnerable. What's your huge contribution to society? Apart from your ridiculous ideas of how to dehumanise people just that little bit more?

Where's my response from yesterday? Did you pay rent out of your £500? What was your housing status? Why were you living on £500?

Not claiming vital support is objectively a stupid decision.

Some people need help to rise above things. Not everyone has the same talents and abilities which will help them escape from poverty without aid. If you want people to get off benefits and into work - and keep them there - you need to address the underlying causes for worklessness: a school system that is rigid and inflexible and only values academia, a health system that has been gutted for 14 years so that people are left unwell for far longer whereas early intervention would have got them back on their feet much faster, a housing market that fails to protect renters and does not offer the kind of secure long term tenancies that keep people in stable location where they can afford to live and work.

All those things cost money. Successive governments have chosen not to prioritise them - and since Thatcher sold off and failed to replace council housing, right wing governments have had more time in power and therefore must accept more of the responsibility.

Throwing people out onto the street to sink or swim is a nice thought if you think it won't happen to you - but even people who are well off are only one accident or serious illness away from disability and poverty.

We need more investment in people to help them thrive, and less 'I'm alright, Jack'.

That's fine. Thank you for the clarification. Apologies

Perhaps being defensive comes from constantly being referred to as a scrounger all over the Internet - and it's got much worse since I went on disability benefits

It wasn't. In fact I was typing this message in response to one of your earlier messages.

You have had a tough time and I wish you well as there is no hostility in your posts (unlike others). We all have different views based on individual circumstances.

I would now add there is no reason to be so defensive.

If that's a (nasty) dig at someone like me, I suggest you keep it to yourself. I've already stated that I paid into the system for decades. I also shattered my leg in three places and it had to be pinned back together and I couldn't walk for months. I also have ptsd due to being stalked

I don't think anyone "owes" me anything. I just wasn't prepared to see myself without a home which I would have been if I hadn't claimed UC.

BTW-I had just been offered a job when I broke my leg. I would have much preferred not to have gone through that experience and be working

I think you need the pity party.

We have a social contract that takes care of those in need and rejecting help when offered because of shame is something that shouldn't happen.

The shame should be for businesses that don't pay enough for people to live on so they need support on top of wages.

I rose above it. Please direct your pity party comment at those who give up and believe they are owed something for nothing.