“Everybody thought the EU was about people coming into the country … no-one told of us the benefits”.

I’m sorry, but most average citizens could not realistically be expected to fully understand the implications of such a massive and complex overhaul as Brexit. There were countless technicalities that were never clearly communicated; many people wouldn’t even think to look for them, and others simply wouldn’t understand the legal jargon involved. Given all this, I’m honestly not surprised that when people were promised the moon on a stick, they rushed to vote “out”, convinced it would magically solve their problems.

Issues of this scale, whether the UK should or shouldn’t remain in the EU, should never have been decided by a referendum. The consequences were simply too complex, too technical, and too far-reaching to be reduced to a simplistic yes-or-no question.

Recently, while buying a piece of jewellery, and a casual conversation in the shop about jewellery, stones etc. led us to mention Angola, as my husband was about to travel there for work the conversation just flowed naturally. The sales assistant then asked us where Angola was😬 And we’re supposed to believe that people with such limited awareness were equipped to make an informed decision on something of this magnitude? Sorry, but I have very little sympathy…

But that is how your democracy is set up! You are a constitutional monarchy not a republic so if that is a big issue, maybe it is time to call for a republic where in most systems a referendum is needed to make any changes to the constitution there is no such requirement in the UK

Yet pro Rwanda supporters say that just the threat of being sent to Rwanda would be good enough to stop people coming here....

The bottom line is that x channel migration only became an issue once we left the EU... not before.... wonder why? channel got narrower shallower perhaps...

Why are people forgetting that Farage was a key player in Brexit? The country was misled by his falsehoods, and are repeating that mistake. I just don’t get it.

We had several General Elections during that time period, including being able to vote for UKIP/Farage, yet no one did or very few.

Pro EU parties were given huge majorities

This is what also got on a lot of people's nerves.

To have a referendum to stay in the EEC which most people agreed to. Yet the government behind our back went full flung into being EU which is a totally different kettle of fish, without so much as a by your leave to people of the country.

It's like going a golf club then being told you have to play tennis as well

She agreed with joining the European economic community , but she would not have agreed with joining the political union that it morphed into without any of us having any say about that.

The fact that the British public did not vote in referendums on major EU treaty amendments (such as Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice, or Lisbon) is not to do with the EU these were ratified by Parliament in Britain. Many other european nations needed referendums to ratify them. Your statement makes it sound like your country had no say in it which is completely untrue.

The Dublin agreement is always trumpeted in these discussions.

According to wiki it wasn't that helpful. One of several issues mentioned:

• Low Transfer Rates: For the UK, only about 7% of outgoing requests resulted in a successful transfer to another member state between 2015 and 2018.

Simply not true, lorry numbers peaked in 2002, at around 25,000 pa, due to agreements reached with the French ie UK border control in France and the wider EU, this is also when hi tech was bought in, making, as you say, a lot harder to do.

So for some 18 years, migrants and traffickers never thought to use the channel?

The truth is, once we left the EU and rights to return migrants, we became easy pickings, coupled with the French doubtless having no real reason to stop.

Don't you think its rather odd that the rapid increase in x ch boats coincided with the UK officially leaving the EU in 2020 ?

Looked up what my Eu mp was doing in the EU Gov just before polling day (of course I didn’t even know who they were like most people) they were a group of snp having meetings one a day about meetings - none of which ended with a decision just a meeting - paid for and their accomm and flights and good pay generously funded by my tax - for nothing as far as I could see -oh and I was also funding MPs in London and MSPs in Scotland and the House of Lords -and all that growing numbers generous pensions -and I’m in a deprive area still going slowly down hill. Why would I vote for them it would be silly -we already have too much government.

My point yesterday about the 1975 leaflets was if you think you've got a strong case, you're not threatened by discussion of counter points. And in 1975 it came out 2:1 remain:leave (albeit overall not a majority if voters who didn't participate are included - just like in 2016).

Why do you think migrants didn't cross the channel in boats pre 2020?

Because they were hiding in lorries or hanging underneath trains snd coming through the tunnel for one thing. That route was made more difficult so they found an alternative that was harder to police.

I haven't mentioned any "extra money".

"We might have had more of we hadn't had "Brexit" isn't the point.

If poorer areas are getting less after leaving the EU it is simply because our goverment has other priorities for spending what money we have than the EU had.

He didn’t argue passionately enough for Remaining though for fear of alienating his party. We are in this situation because Cameron put party ahead of country. And Corbyn was an absolute disgrace.

Someone I know had a property in Spain and had plans to retire there. Still voted for Brexit. That’s just being thick.

Wales voted for Brexit in the most deprived areas despite benefitting hugely from EU funding. There is no way the Welsh Parliament can make up for that funding loss.

Its fairly obvious, if you read the post, i was referring to the UK.

On Reform, 24% of the vote atm?? so 3/4 don't support the far right.

We have carried on taking HCPs from any country that will allow us to do so, we voted back in, Govt s that did this, we are still doing it.

Net migration might well be lower but thats in no small measure to people leaving, inc around 70,000 EU citizens last year, the UK is no longer quite so attractive to our European neighbours as it once was or you think it still is.

A migrant from Somalia is going to take many years to obtain EU citizenship, if he/she ever does.

Why do you think migrants didn't cross the channel in boats pre 2020?

I recall David Cameron sending out leaflets extolling the virtues of staying in the EU before Brexit referendum.

@MrsMurphyIWish everyone had google or wikipedia or books from the library etc

I’m from a very deprived part of the north-east. All we’ve ever known, really, is being let down by successive governments. The decline started in the late 70s and now it’s getting harder & harder to access the few public services that are left. I don’t like Reform at all and know they don’t have all the answers, but I think I can understand the draw to some people; they’re talking about the things that people in these areas are experiencing and, simply, Reform are something different to try. All the other parties have done next to nothing for them, so why not.

It isn't about raw numbers, it is about purchasing power. Costs have gone up across the board, and a vast amount of money is spent on servicing our debt interest - a lot of which links back to covid and all of the support measures that were implemented during the pandemic. That isn't the fault of Brexit of course, but it would have been easier to pay for it if the overall economy had grown as economists think it would have had we stayed.

I'm not sure where exactly you think all the extra money has gone or what these other government priorities might be. ..it isn't as if anything in the country is well resourced any more. But we are paying billions in interest on our national debt.

Your poor memory and/or lack of engagement during the referendum campaign doesn't mean that the issue wasn't highlighted at the time. It was.

It isn't smaller. It's smaller than some people think it might have been without Brexit.

The Remain campaign did highlight many of the issues that subsequently transpired, including the hit to the economy, the Northern Ireland issues

I learned about the NI issues from posters on another forum, I have no recollection of it featuring in the Remain campaign.

Our GDP is not smaller than it was at Brexit, it is smaller than some people think that it might have been if we had not Brexited (in spite of the fact that other major EU countries are in worse economic positions).,

There is no reason for smaller than previous regional payments than that our own elected government has other priorities for the money.

The message might have been correct but it was coming from people they distrusted.