To think my child is difficult

He does actually sound like he could be neurodivergent - probably ADHD. Biting is unusual with a 5yo - but probably less so with a neurodivergent child - could it be that does it when overwhelmed? Or is it poor impulse control?

The messy eating is also common with neurodivergent people - due to poor proprioception.

The thing with consequences not working - childrwn with ADHD can forget about rules in the heat of the moment and can struggle with delayed consequences.

My DC2 was diagnosed at age 20 with ADHD (and dyslexia at 18 after finishing A-Levels).Neither the primary nor secondary school noticed either of these conditions. The secondary school even gave DC2 a load of screener questionnaires for several conditions including ADHD, and they came out as ‘normal’. I asked DC2’s psychiatrist why these screeners came out as normal and she said that is often the case with young people because they are not very self aware.

You say there is no support - but there is medication for ADHD. It has been around for decades and is very effective.

Same here.

The other thing is it (very belatedly) gave me insight into some of DH's more puzzling behaviours. Him too actually.

@TheVeryThing oh yes, Laura Markham - I'd forgotten her! I found her stuff useful around this age.

I think you're quite lucky to have another child as a comparison, OP. I just assumed DH and I were crap at parenting as I had nothing to compare to.

It can be a big relief to find a description in a book you can relate to!

It will definitely be good to get the hearing checked. I think what others are saying when they encourage you to look into SEN is that it can help you cope, never mind if there is support out there or not. To give you some examples, one of my son's issues is interoception. I had never heard this term until recently, but it basically means that he has difficulty recognising hunger cues, and sometimes confuses hunger feelings with anxiety. I learned to cope with it, but it would have been so helpful to know that was a 'thing' and not get so exasperated with all the knock-on implications of the condition. He also has alexithymia - again, new to me until recently - a kind of 'emotional blindness' whereby he simply can't identify or articulate what he is feeling at times. Neither of these conditions has affected his school life at all; it wasn't a question of needing external support. However, I do wish we had understood it all earlier because quite honestly I was so hard on him at times and I really regret that.

Hi OP, I have a similar child.

A book I found really useful was Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child. There are lots of tips of what to do and insights into why behaviours might be occurring.

One book you might find useful is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Not everyone likes it but it has a different approach to managing kids who respond badly to consequences. I found it super-useful for understanding what was going on in my DC's mind and some of the strategies were great for keeping things calm at home, and it doesn't depend on any specific diagnosis.

This sounds really tough and I feel for you. I hear that you don't think this is to do with neurodiversity - fair enough. However, what I will say is that in my DS's case, it became obvious (to me anyway) only in his late teens that he was ND and I suddenly understood that some of his behaviours which drove me mad were not a choice. He has not been diagnosed, but I have read up on some aspects of his traits which have been a challenge all his life and which I dealt with pretty badly as he was growing up. I feel sad, looking back, that I didn't clock the situation earlier. Now, I am able to be much more patient, to handle things in a much better way and to accept him as he is much more readily. (I should say that he was a very different child from your son, so I can't really help in terms of advice there.)

What I am trying to say is that whether or not your son is ND, and whether or not you get a diagnosis, it's about getting strategies to cope. That is what you are doing by posting here, which is great, and hopefully you've been given some good ideas. There will be other forums you can post on too, or just generally google behaviours and you will find lots online. You already know that your son's behaviour is a bit unusual as you have a younger child who is much 'easier', so this is not a question of 'poor parenting', but parenting a challenging child requires different strategies than those you might use for an 'easier' child. If you can get these in place, hopefully you will be able to enjoy your little boy more. Good luck x

I have a DS and a DD 2.5 years younger. At 5, DS was very similar to how you describe yours. Whereas DD has always responded in the 'normal' way to punishments and consequences and is an easy child.

At 5, I thought DS was strong willed, boisterous, a handful... By 7, his difficult behaviours had become worse and there was a huge gulf between his behaviour and that of his peers. I eventually told the GP, was referred to CAMHS and he was diagnosed with ADHD, ASD and ODD and has crippling anxiety. CAMHS themselves aren't brilliant in my experience but his diagnoses have led to lots of extra support at school, and we've learned techniques to support him both from school and from other resources

I've got three sons, one was a nightmare. If it's any comfort he's a lovely adult, probably the most thoughtful of the three although he can still get a bit fixated on things. He has a great degree, job, wife, child, lots of friends. At five he was an angry aggressive horror although like your son there were no issues at school.

I have no magic suggestions but maybe hope for the future

You have described my DS4.5 to a T. I have read that some kids really crave “auditory stimulation” aka noise. Mine definitely talks just to hear himself speak.

When it starts really getting to me, I put on some music (I try for music that I like, but will settle for music I can tolerate like Raffi or Sharon Lois and Bram - NOT Cocomelon or similar). 90% of the time he will stop talking and we can both listen to the music.

When he gets “stuck” on speaking like you describe, I get him to stop and take two deep breaths and think about what he wants to say before he speaks again.

They also do a lot of calming activities at nursery, which helps a lot. We will take five deep breaths by tracing one finger up and down the fingers on the other hand (breathe in on the up, out on the down), or calmly blowing the fingers of one hand out like a candle, or putting hands on tummy and taking deep belly breaths so the hand moves up and down. Practice when he’s calm and it might help take things down a notch or two when he’s getting overexcited.

It sounds really tough.
Parenting courses can be really useful. Also, I found Laura Markham's website really good - maybe try the articles on discipline and I would also recommend the section on connecting with your kids.
There are loads of ideas for games to play and a couple of them I used with my younger ds when we were going through a tough time. It really helped to have some time to just try to connect and have fun with him, even for a few minutes every day.

People who post things like this have zero experience of parenting a more challenging child IMO.

I’ve seen children in the wild, family members, kids of friends etc. Most of them are 50 times more malleable than my eldest DD. They just are easier. If you didn’t find one of your children a nightmare to parent, just don’t respond to threads like this. Thanks so much.

I'm glad he's having a hearing test. Sometimes an infection can lead to hearing problems that linger afterwards and slight trouble hearing can lead to a lot of frustration and to some surprising behaviour issues. These after-effects can often be easily fixed e.g. with grommets.

I hope you find some answers and some plainer sailing!

Fwiw OP mine used to clean the floor of play cafes with their tops. Nightmare. They're much older now. Not sliding on the floor. Still make a mess in the kitchen. Not diagnosed with anything - personally think that route is a non starter. I have had to dig deep at times and read the riot act. Last one is particularly tiresome at times. Needs an ASBO. Will go far in life. Knows what she wants. Nightmare. I'm hoping that she'll be a delight as a teenager as ime everyone gets something. Was a cutie as a baby. Even as toddlers they were all quite cute, even mid tantrum. I've found 5-8/9 much more challenging.

I have read through your posts, @Letsgoupstairs, but am full of brain fog today, so apologies if I have missed it, but have you tried positive consequences for good behaviour? Stickers on a chart, with a treat for a certain number of them.

So you could say “We are going to read this book, and if you sit and listen nicely, you’ll get a sticker”, or “You behaved nicely at soft play, so you can get a sticker when we get home” - basically looking for any little thing to reward.

Poor mite, his ear must have been so painful for it to start leaking stuff. That will of course have affected his behaviour. Has he said it hurt at all? He may not recognise the build up of pressure yet, but he will as he gets older.

I hope you get some answers at the hearing assessment OP. That seems to be the root cause of (at least) some of his behaviours. He seems frustrated that he can't get out of his mouth what is going on in his head.

I can relate.

My son is 8 now but he has always been hard work.

He does have a lot of great qualities but he can be stroppy, defiant and just downright awkward and often nothing can please him. He is very bloody minded and can be horribly obsessive about things in a way that upsets and disrupts everyone around him (this is one of the reasons we did often consider some sort of neurodiversity, but the older we get the more we don’t think it is).

I think a lot of the issue with my son is that he is very spoilt. We just love him and want to make him happy but we have realised this is not always for the best.

He does, however, know when his behaviour is not acceptable. And we know this because he would not dare try it with other people. Just with us.

On the flip side, he is actually very mature for 8, has very good manners (particularly with other people), is very funny and engaging, outgoing and confident.

Sometimes I will be feeling frustrated at how difficult he can be, then I spend time with his friends….and I find them irritating beyond belief.

So a lot of it can just be that young boys can be very annoying.

edited to add: my son is not an only child. So we do know how other kids behave. And when I say he is spoiled, I don’t mean obscenely so. We do try and instil in him that he is not the only member of this family…but he sometimes does act like he is. He does have a way of very much ruling the house, which we need to stop.

There seems to be an underlying assumption on this thread that SEND means ASD/ADHD. It really doesn't!
It could, in this case, mean hearing impairment, difficulty with language processing, both and/or speaking and understanding.
But OP will never know if her child isn't assessed by anybody.
I'm sorry OP, hus behaviour does sound challenging.

He does sound particularly challenging with the biting etc but to be honest children in general are draining, annoying, needy, attention seeking and loud in my honest opinion, so don’t feel guilty.

To be fair plenty of posters have offered strategies and advice for managing behaviours in NT children and OP didn't like that either.

Why are you allowing him to be?