90 year old male watching naked women on tv

People just refuse to see the difference between a man wanking to a cave painting or a Reubens and a multi million pound global business exploiting countless women and girls. It’s bizarre.

I made no comment on whether the specific women on Babestation are trafficked or tricked or coerced or drugged- I doubt it. They are being objectified though by the people watching it, aren’t they? This is my objection to it. The fact that some people are happy to be objectified doesn’t make it right 🤷🏼‍♀️

My daughter definitely doesn’t- we share the same views on porn and objectification- we talk about it a lot.

I expect my son does use it. He knows my views but I don’t and can’t control what he chooses to do. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I just have to hope that whatever porn use he is engaged in doesn’t impact his treatment of women.

I'm sure people used to think it was unrealistic to expect men to not rape their wives with impunity - after all, men had been legally raping their wives for thousands of years! And you just expect them to stop?? Insanity!! Men need to have sex with their wives whenever they want to, and who cares what she thinks! That's the way it's been since the beginning of time!

...And yet here we are! In a world where raping your wife is illegal! And most of them don't do it! (Even if too many still do.)

I know you might hate men, but I do think they're actually capable of not being monsters.

I think telling her not to judge is the issue. It's not as though she was asking you to confront him, but I don't see the harm in agreeing with her that it's gross behaviour since that's what you also seem to think. I think it's poor behaviour on his part if he's always been so open about watching strippers and porn around his daughter.

Men have not been innocently looking at cave paintings for 2000 years

The number of men who have made a concerted effort to not watch porn in any medium (photos/videos), and have done so successfully for years on end, is going to be tiny.

And who manage to resist when horny.

Even if you use your preference is to use your imagination to masturbate, you need to think of someone, something. That may not be hardcore XXX content, but it will be sleaze.

The Mumsnet anti-porn absolutism is so unrealistic.

Well, many posters on here don’t seem to!

Oh yes! The peanuts on the card with the topless woman underneath - I’d completely forgotten about those.

What I mean by 'in defence of porn' is it's a phrase trotted out by women trying to shout down other women who say porn is unacceptable, or by women trying to say that porn is great and fine.

And yes, obviously many men watch porn. Many men used to rape their wives with impunity, and it was considered their right.

Humans clearly are capable of a degree of change, or you'd be stuck at home, pregnant with your sixth child, without the vote, being legally raped by your husband. But I presume you're not. So why is it so unreasonable to think we can denormalise porn?

What won't help is just shrugging our shoulders helplessly and saying, 'well, boys will be boys, I guess'.

I think we know that dont we?

Generally speaking if you have sons they'll be using it, colloqually, if it makes you more happy to have it described as 'if you have sons most of them will be using it' so be it, one doesnt give a caveat for every situation but that is the reality.

Im not sure what you mean by 'defence' of porn, whats that mean?

I dont know what you do about the reality but that is the reality. There is a level of denial on this forum that you dont tend to find in real life or on other forums, not sure why that is.

The point which people “miss”-or more likely refuse to discuss because it’s too uncomfortable to think about is that online porn involves a huge number of of actual, real life women and girls and we have no way of knowing whether those women are fully consenting, protected by employment laws, well treated, well paid and adult. Or whether they are coerced, exploited, trafficked, under age and simply fodder for a big business machine. Of course porn has always existed. What did not exist before 2000 is porn’s immense capacity for harm.

My issue was with you saying, "If you have sons, they will be using it" as many people say this about sons/husbands/boyfriends in 'defence' of porn - "just give up on trying to stop them! Even your x, y, or z does it and if you think they don't, you're wrong! Every man watches it!!"

I'm sure the PP's '2000s' comment was in regard to the fact that it has only been widely available online in hardcore video at everyone's fingertips for free since the 2000s.

And video content is rather different to paintings. The average man was not sitting and staring at a renaissance painting while he wanked. (To be fair, he was probably raping his wife, which was also normalised at the time!)

Its well known that people often give answers in line with social mores and expectations whether anonymous or not, its a known bias that statisticians are aware of in their research. The survey may have accounted for that but the reality is, there are a number of group thinks that people know they are 'supposed' to think and believe and that will influence study results in a survey like that and those group thinks change over time.

75% of a population doing something makes it fairly normal and standard, like it or not which is what I said.

Even on this thread is a misunderstanding of what porn is, another poster talks about it not being present until around 2000s and how did men do without it. It has always existed, go and see the paintings in Pompeii, see the classical paintings of the renaissance. The idea it only exists online is ridiculous.

Gross at any age, but never more so than at his age!

Why would people lie in such a milquetoast anonymous survey? Porn is entirely normalised in British society now - there's no reason to lie! If you so much as say you're against porn you get shouted down, shamed, and told all men need it. No, I doubt people are lying in that survey.

And you said: "If you have sons, they will be using it" which is just untrue. They might be using it, but there's also a chance that they never do. People always say on these threads, "Oh, your husband definitely watches it" etc, as though everyone does. So I'm just pointing out that a full quarter of men don't. Facts! Very useful.

Highly unlikely that is a correct stat given the group think that its not supposed to be ok now, it just means people lie

Even if that is correct it means 75% do, so how does that invalidate what I said?

I know there’s this perception that Mumsnet hates men, and that’s obviously bullshit. The only time I wonder whether it’s true is on threads about porn.

Lmao, I know, right? It astonishes me the way that people insist men neeeeed porn when that's categorically, clearly untrue. And even in a world where it's freely available, a sizeable minority of men don't use it!

Perhaps prior to porn, the sort of people arguing that men need porn, were the ones who argued that men neeeeeed to rape their servant girls and wives 🙄

It must have been so exciting for men when masturbation suddenly became possible in 2000 after 300000 years of frustration and thinking “There’s something missing from my life….”

I think because gross men like to wank over young women, and 18 or 14, it doesn't stop them. Let's say your daughter was 16 though (so technically 'legal'), and helping out a man you knew around the house - would you be alright if he told you he'd been whacking one out while imagining having his way with her?
After all, it's legal, and it's only imagination, right? You shouldn't judge!!

Personally, I'm not in favour of the misogynistic objectification of women in any regard - whether paid sex work, or men fantasising about a person they know. 25% of men don't watch porn. They can just imagine a fantasy woman. It's not that difficult if they have an ounce of respect for women.

Actually, 25% of British men don't watch porn.

yougov.co.uk/society/articles/42945-how-often-do-britons-watch-porn

It's her dad, and he asked her to 'fix his phone' - it's probably in the course of looking to see what's gone wrong with it that she came across the pictures. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted her to see, frankly.

This. It's gross and misogynistic whether he's 19 or 90. Ew. And the fact that he has no shame about it and flaunts it in her face is even grosser.

Your poor cousin, having to put up with her father having been a disgusting perv right in front of her all her life. Why would you tell her not to judge him?

Men like porn. That doesn’t change just because they get older. I doubt there is much porn featuring geriatric women so he’s watching what is generally available. My own dad (82) watches porn, I’ve even encountered him doing so once (he’s very deaf). Aside from the fact that I find porn ethically and morally problematic, I don’t judge my dad any differently to any of the other men I know, all of whom I’m sure watch porn. People’s dads are still men and men generally do like porn.