To ask for opinions on varicella vaccine vs natural immunity?

I didn’t realise it protected against shingles. I’ve had shingles three times, is it too late for me to get the vaccine?!!

I've no idea on the science of it but I daresay there will be studies as it's been used in the US for decades, the original babies getting it will be roughly childbearing age now. I have to say I suspect that the idea the vaccine protection wears off is a bit of a myth. If it was a problem that it wears off, then booster doses would be recommended but they aren't, which makes me think either it doesn't wear off, or if it does wear off then it doesn't cause an issue. There are other vaccines that we get in pregnancy to protect the unborn baby, and I remember having my immunity to mumps checked when I was pregnant with DS1.

I will only say that I moved to Germany 13 years ago and I've literally never in all that time heard of a single case of chicken pox, not among my friends' children, not at nursery (and they get every other bug), not at school, not among the elderly ladies at choir - and one of them had measles last year and was very unwell with it. The only times I hear of it are from friends in the UK with small DC or on mumsnet, and it's often jarring because I've basically forgotten it exists, it looks awful - seems mad that we consider(ed) that normal.

DS1 who was 5 when we moved here had a catch up jab as a teenager as he'd never caught it.

The main long term thing I was glad about with my DC having the jab is that they don't have the 1:4 chance of developing shingles that everyone who has been infected with the chicken pox virus has. I've not had shingles (touch wood because I've had chicken pox) but a colleague had repeated bouts in his 20s and it sounded absolutely miserable.

As someone who's had shingles, I'd get the vaccine without hesitation. There's a theoretical possibility of getting shingles secondary to the vaccine, but it's extremely rare compared with getting it secondary to the wild infection. If you can spare your kids that in later life, why wouldn't you.

A few things: 1) chickenpox is a serious virus with many potential complications, even as basic as scarring. My kids both caught it before the vaccine was offered and now have scars (including on their faces). 2) you mention multiple times that the vaccine does not offer lifelong immunity. Neither does the virus! I know multiple people who have had it more than once. The vaccine is a live vaccine designed to mimic infection, and so protection will be similar. 3) FWIW, the vaccine is offered combined with the MMR, and as a result the vaccine schedule has changed. I’m not sure how declining the CP vaccine would impact all the others. My kids both recently had the vaccine even though they have had chickenpox.

please get your children vaccinated.

and if it’s relevant, I am also not an epidemiologist, but I am an immunologist ;)

I'd get the vaccine - CP causes scarring, risk of encephalitis and infected spots as well. It wasn't available when DS was a small child.

Poor DH got shingles when DS was born and couldn't attend the birth or see DS for a while afterwards. Really painful blistering on his jaw and face too.

I had both my kids vaccinated privately, they both had 2 doses. I believe there is the option for a booster dose in later years should you be concerned about waning immunity.
I had CP when I was 8, I remember how horribly ill I was, then I got shingles in my 30s. Both bloody awful, and I was sent home from work as soon as I was diagnosed with shingles as a girl on my team was pregnant at the time.
If you have the option to vaccinate at the same time as MMR I would definitely do it!

It's totally worth it just for the peace of mind! The problem with expecting them to get natural immunity is that you never know when it'll happen and it's always going to be some time that's hugely inconvenient (just before a holiday, over Christmas, as soon as you have an urgent work deadline). You have to spend days worrying about it, and they might not even catch it at all which just postpones the stress again.

DD's been through at least 3 waves of chicken pox at nursery and school. Loads of kids getting sick each time, missing 2 weeks of school etc. Since getting her vaxxed, it's literally not even a topic on our mind at all and it feels great.

Also, if you are very unlucky then they might not catch it at all! I somehow managed to avoid it as a child and my parents simply assumed I had it at some point since I did have a few rash-y things. Ended up catching it as a teenager and it was horrendous, still have the scars from it. Another school mum I know also never had it and caught it off her own daughter.

Get the vaccine. I was told to vaccinate my child before we went to NZ as if they’d got it there, it would be worse for them as all the others had been vaccinated. This came from a professor in immunology but I haven’t researched the science.

In any case, it can be really awful so best to just vaccinate

I thought that they were planning to give those children a second one in due course.

I was the exact same, had it 4 months ago and haven’t felt right since!

Are they not offering it with the MMR, which is two doses- 1 at 12 months and another aged 3?

Can they not then get a booster later on?

Are you considering the week of your child feeling ill and miserable and you having to look after them because they can't go to childcare?

My dd had CP at 9m old in 2012, she was so unwell and her nappy area was open weeping sores, it was horrific. I still wonder how she isn't more scarred from the hundreds of spots she had. I got ds vaccinated, 2 doses, privately in 2014, no regrets. I'd take the nhs vaccine now, no hesitation .

I’m in hospital on IV antivirals for shingles. I’ve been here six days. It is horrible. Anything I could do to avoid that would be worth it.

Even if they don’t have serious complications, their experience of it can still be awful. I got the vaccine privately for my child.

I'd get them vaccinated. I had it as a child but then caught it again in my 30s. I was pregnant at the time. It can be a dangerous illness for the unborn baby and pregnant women, and I was very lucky that my child had no lasting effects when they were born.

@Moopp but the problem is having chicken pox as a child doesn’t guarantee lifelong protection either. Many people get chicken pox twice - with those with lower immune systems most likely but it’s not impossible even if you’re immunocompetent. Last time I spoke to a microbiologist about it the figures quoted was 95% lifelong immunity with vaccine and 98% with natural immunity - to me that’s basically exactly the same so I would much rather vaccinate (which is what I paid to do) and also not have to deal with a childhood illness and associated time off school (until all the lesions have scabbed over).

Also there’s no definitive test for chicken pox - it is a clinical diagnosis based on blistering which can look similar to other childhood illnesses - your child may be misdiagnosed as having chicken pox and then actually have no natural immunity in adulthood anyway. If you’re main concern is their immunity when their older I would personally get them BOTH doses of the vaccine not one - as you’re maximally protected a few weeks after the second dose, rather than leaving it to chance

You mention that both your children are boys which means you’re less worried about the immunity in pregnancy but what if they meet a female who anlso has no antibodies who becomes pregnant and then and your son gets chickenpox pox ? Or have a female pregnant colleague. Or what if your child develops (god forbid and I mean this sincerely) a condition which requires immunosuppression - arthritis/ psoriasis/ cancers / inflammatory bowel disease even asthma - if they’re on these medications and develop chicken pox it is much more likely to be severe. Luckily with it becoming free on the NHS hopefully by the time your kids are older there will be more herd immunity and less likelihood of this.

I had a really sensible conversation with a prescribing pharmacist about this, as had the same concern.

Once upon a time I studied a reasonable amount of proper science, and was comfortable with the explanation although cant recall the full details.

The rough summary was that because of the mechanism through which this vaccine works, and the recognised behaviour of the virus and immune response - the immunity from the vaccine should be equivalent to the immunity from catching chicken pox.

The regulations about drug efficacy are very tight, so it cant be reported as providing life long immunity until it’s been studied for a standard lifetime. It’s been studied for a couple of decades, so that’s where those figures come from.

It’s pretty well recognised that chicken pox as an adult is more problematic than as a child, and a fairly wide range of countries have made the vaccine part of their standard regime. I like to think that if there was any evidence pointing towards effectiveness waning with time (as opposed to not being proved yet) that that approach wouldn’t be as wide spread.

to put it in context , a simple mosquito bite almost leas to a hospitalisation as Ds could not stop picking and scratching

We did the private vax as had 2 nd kids whom i just knew would pick and scratch and have scars when it was ripping around nursery! I do worry about long term immunity for dd and will maybe get a booster for her T 20?