How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

Not necessarily. My DD went to the grammar ( in fact someone mentioned it in Chelmsford) We live 8 miles away. Our local comp ( that the other 2 attended) was pretty good also

What school/social environment are they going to get if you homeschool? Do you have sufficient income to be able to homeschool?

There are no grammars in my entire county. DD would've aimed for a place in one if there was. No one sits 11+ because it's pointless, but she did very well in her SATS.
DD still gained 8/9s at GCSE in a fairly average Northern secondary school.
There is only one sixth form college in our town. It isn't attached to a school. There, she gained A levels in maths, physics and chemistry, all at Grade A. She is now studying for a Masters in mathematical physics.
I do wonder whether she'd have had the grades and confidence to apply to Oxford or Cambridge if she'd attended a more academic school. She does attend a good university (red brick/Russell Group).
DD said maths and sciences (iirc) were fine at school because they were streamed , but there was a lot of disruption in some classes, where it wasn't 'cool' to be academic.

Actually, I think that depends where you are relocating from. My children go to a comprehensive in a grammar area. They are both bright kids (all 7-9 at GCSEs) and I wouldn't swap for a grammar. The children come from all over from neighbouring counties, so friends are often not local, the school does does fewer sports and after-school clubs (as so many children have long commutes).

My children are very fortunate they have supportive family, space at home to work etc, plenty of experience in sports teams, extra curricular activities. Many don't- I think the home life is at least as important as the school tbh.

Class sizes- at A level stage my kids are in classes of 8-12.

What if your kids dont get in ?

You can't really compare Grammar schools to comprehensive schools as the vast majority of the UK don't hsve them ,I think there are only 167 in the whole of England.
And 63? In Northern Ireland.

But I do appreciate everyones comments. I may have to push DP more towards homeschooling for now.

Why?

You would be bonkers to move for Grammars before your child is even at primary.

You have no idea whether your child will be in the top 25% of achievers that grammars typically take. (5% for 'super selectives' where distance plays no part and it is simply those with the highest scores rather than everyone who passes)

Even if she is you have no guarantee that on the one day when they sit a test to determine the place, that she wouldn't have some fit of nerves, or brain go blank, or just get it wrong on the day.

Grammar results are based wholly on the capability of the cohort.

My Dc did very well indeed in top sets of a comprehensive and though we are in S London and the school took kids from hugely problematic estates and an adjoining 'aspirational' area (as is common in London where high density social housing is right next to a conservation area of £1m houses) ,the kids did well and achieved their potential at all ability levels and behaviour was on the whole good.

The overall average GCSE grade doesn't inform the level your dc will achieve.

I would look for an area with good comprehensives.

I moved out on London to another town and I did choose a house as close as possible to the local girls grammer school so my DD's would have the best opportunity to get in.

Its not a hugely selective grammer school and I certainly didn't pay over the odds for my house, but it worked for both my DD's and they have both gone to the grammer school after doing the 11+ exams etc.

DD2 got in on appeal and our house location became useful for that. DD1 is more academic & got in from 11+ only.

I'm glad I did this - I can not afford private schooling (I'm a single parent) and this was the best option for us. Both my DD's have benfited from this school & my decision to try & live close enough for them to attend.

Is that a state grammar? Afaik they don’t specifically have smaller classes. And an averagely academic student would not normally get in - or would struggle once there. If it’s a private school using grammar in the name then that’s different obvs.

@Karma1387 re HE - I am not against it as some are here, but IMO it needs to be for the right reasons. For a YP who is struggling in school (perhaps bc of bullying, they are ND, anxiety) it can be great. But to choose it cold is unusual; also yes, do you have the skills to cover the secondary curriculum? I’m a qualified secondary teacher and I would not want to teach GCSE physics. The alternative is somewhere like Interhigh but it’s ££.

My brother, ExH and I all went to grammars in one county, and my son is now at grammar in another county.

in my experience, it’s not about money, grammars don’t automatically have more/better facilities than other schools at all (though there is a correlation that grammar schools tend to be older schools, so may have ‘collected’ more facilities such as sports fields over decades of development)

as I’m sure you know they are very selective and only take the top % of kids following academic testing, so of course those kids will perform better on average at GCSE/A-level than the average score of a school with all abilities. They probably would have performed well at a regular school too, but the average will look higher as there is nobody of lower ability sitting the tests at a grammar.

in terms of environment, yes I think the behavioural culture can be different. All schools have their problems, and all teachers have stresses, but they are just different.
You are less likely to find kids acting out because they are bored or disengaged from learning, so there’s a general attitude of positivity around knuckling down and learning, and the teachers at grammar don’t have to spend time working with those of lower ability so can push the brighter ones harder.
however teens are teens wherever they are so behaviour will never be perfect!

if I were you I’d look at the amount of applicants vs places offered, consider whether your child is likely to get in, and visit the schools before moving. I’d rather find a brilliant comprehensive a short move away than move far away from friends and family just for the hope of a grammar place - and I’m pro grammar!

Kids are brighter and generally work harder

No, the teachers are knackered and stressed from dealing with the unreasonable demands of parents, who want to know why their precious offspring didn't get an A* 😉.

That however is very unusual, living through your children is not healthy. How would you personally fund homeschooling without it having an impact on the family budget?

I am in my early 60s and went to a Grammar school. Mine was the only Grammar school in the large London Borough as the Government had made an the others in the area into comprehensive schools the year before.

They retained only one girls' grammar school and one boys' one in this large London borough.

How do you know that this won't happen with whatever Government is in when your kids are at the right age?

Your DC might turn out to be geniuses or not. One type of school might suit them better than another. It's so early to decide if that's the only reason to move.

If your DC have a strong likelihood of getting a place (and, typically, will need to have received appropriate private coaching that you have paid for) then why not.

But think about the situation, if your DC do not get into the grammar school in that area. In that case you are looking at them attending the equivalent of the old secondary modern.

Before you relocate, have a look at the schools in the area for those pupils who do not get into a grammar school. If you would be happy with your DC attending those then relocate.

If not, then wait until they pass the exam and are accepted ( most grammar schools accept applications from outside the immediate area).

I'd be very careful about this long-term planning for grammar school in a grammar school heavy area, when you don't even know how academically inclined your children will be. Comprehensives in grammar heavy areas or in close proximity to a grammar are much worse performing than comprehensives at distance to grammar schools or in non-grammar counties. In fact, there are no secondary schools in special measures in non-grammar counties ... you do the maths.

So if you're children are not academically inclines or just happen not to perform as well as they need to in the exams, then you'll end up in a worse position than they might have.

This is why I detest grammar schools, and moved out to a non-grammar county. Our secondary schools are all excellent and rated outstanding.

Yes I never got the point of all the coaching either. DD did some practice papers but I definitely couldn't afford coaching Some of the other girls still had extra tuition while at the school and they tended to be floating round the bottom of the classes

Grammar schools are often incredibly selective with results in the first place, demographic, location and attitudes of children and parents also come into play plus all grammar schools will have a “voluntary contribution” which isn’t so voluntary and amounts to several hundred pounds per pupil annually which bumps up their income.
Religious schools also have their income topped up or their running costs reduced therefore giving them more budget.

We have a local historic Grammar School. I say historic, as it calls itself a grammar school, but stopped being selective in the 1970s. We are actually in the next county so never stood much of a chance of getting in, but we’ve been to a couple of open days. Essentially, they were founded in 1600 and something. They’ve accumulated and invested a reasonable amount of funds from benefactors over the last 400 n odd years.

Do you have any experience in education? Can you survive on just your DP's income? What if you start home educating and find you or your DC's don't like it?
There are good state schools around.

We moved specifically to be close to grammar schools, it was a gamble because the comprehensives here are terrible. I was pretty confident my children would pass the 11+, but we didn’t move until the summer before they started year 4. In your situation I would wait and see how academic they are before making a decision.

Having been born and brought up in Grantham - and visited very regularly since - I would never move there without good reason. Passing the 11+ isn't enough, your children may still not get in depending on how many pass. I know of bright children who didn't. You are much better, if you must move, choosing a place with all round good schools. I am grammar educated, my daughter State. She went to an excellent comprehensive (not even in the top 3 comprehensives in our city and yet great results, good pastoral care, sports and Arts and also got several a year into Oxbridge if that's your bag). Her education was probably better than my selective education. Oh, and no knives (!), no more drugs than any other schools (and less than the private schools) and no bullying for being clever. She was treated as an individual and thrived. There are of course bad comps out there - and bad grammars and bad private schools - but there are many, many brilliant schools doing brilliant things for all pupils, not just the hot-housed ones.

I went to Kings in Grantham, teaching was poor, bullying was a problem and sexism was rife in both the staff and the students, it wasn’t unusual for teachers to call the girls at KG (girls grammar) slags, this was in the early 2000’s, so not that long ago. Homophobia and racism were also a huge problem. Facilities are poor too, no on site PE you have to go to a site a few miles away for PE lessons, no outdoor space at break apart from a very small concrete quad. The science labs are in the old buiding, so it really limits carrying out practicals. Physical classrooms are very small as there isn’t any scope for increasing the school site.

I moved to what was then called central, now Priory Ruskin. It couldn’t have been more different, plus women were successful teachers and successful children, not just the cleaners who were treated like scum by the teachers. Brilliant facilities, great sport facilities, not in the town centre so less polution, easier for getting there and home if being collected by a parent.

A teacher from Kings was recently found to be sexually abusing at least one pupil, she has now been banned from teaching.

Looking at this news article it seems Kings boys haven’t changed.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1413641/grammar-school-kings-school-investigate-gang-rape-claims