How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

OP, I've had an idea, having reflected on what you have posted so far about your preferences. You mention that you own a house other than the one you live in. You also say there are lots of independent schools near where you live now. Why not stay where you are, sell your other house, and use the capital to fund independent schools for both your children? You could take financial advice about how to handle the proceeds of sale to maximise their investment potential and be tax efficient.

Hopefully, there is a small, nurturing school close by that you can walk to to drop them off and pick them up until whatever age you deem suitable for them to be independent, so you need never be late and the risk of them talking to any adult other than you and the school staff will be reduced. As you would be a customer rather than a tax payer as in the state system you so dislike and distrust, you would have much more say in how the school managed your children day-to-day and they would get much more individual attention because class sizes are nearer 10 than 30. My DD went to an independent school for A level and was in a class of two for French. The holidays are longer too so you would have more time at home with them.

Being a customer also has its downsides, of course. If your children had behavioral problems, for instance, the school could take the view that they would rather be without both the behaviour and the fee income so your children would be asked to leave. You would also find higher expectations of you and your partner participating in school events with other parents, which given your preference for a solitary, domestic life may not be welcome. Another risk is that your children might make friends with other children who live in neighbouring villages, increasing the risk of play dates and parents offering your children lifts.

Obviously this would all depend on the value of the house, and how much, if any, is mortgaged. There are hybrid options too - state primary out of catchment, independent from 11 or 13.

The key point, though, is that there is no perfect solution for any of us when it comes to choosing a school for our children, and we have less control than we may like to think. My DD went to an out-of-catchment infant school because I didn't like the fact that the school opposite our house at the time was racially uniform (every child white, as we are), unlike the civil service nursery she attended and loved. My neighbour was unhappy about classes being shuffled around at junior level. I told him class composition is the school's to decide, because they know all the children well.

As several have said on here, home schooling presents difficulties too - cost especially at secondary level, risk of isolation and poor socialisation of children, burden on parent, narrow curriculum, need to evidence to the local authority what has been taught, the forthcoming duty on local authorities to maintain a register of home-schooled children (see previous today).

Op, dc don't suddenly go from baby hood to adulthood and understand the world overnight.

There is a whole raft of growing and learning to be done in between and educating them so that they can function in the world. Part of this is learning how to communicate with other human beings, so yes, as your dc grow they will talk to people that you and they don't know already. Re your dc going in a car with others, do you intend to be going everywhere with them when they are adults? Job interviews etc, or do you think it would be more sensible to teach them to risk assess these things for themselves with support as they grow?

My now adult dc are very different, and we found a good approach was to assess each dc needs indivually, and to do what was right for each one at that moment.
One went to grammar and thrived
One refused to go to grammar, despite passing the 11+, they preferred the comp and are now at university.
One needed the support from the comp that they wouldn't have got from the grammar due to their dyslexia.

It is insanity to be planning your lives around a possible school place in 9 years. A fabulous ofsted review now, may be downgraded by the time you get there, the school may not be a good fit for your family, your dc may not be academic enough, or may not thrive in the environment of that school. You won't know this until your dc is many years older.

My advice is to concentrate on what is right for your family now and as your family grows and develops reassess your options.

I’m afraid this just isn’t true. Fractions and factoring are part of the yr 5 curriculum. Unless your nephew is at some kind of weird hothouse private school, it’s impossible. Also it doesn’t work with your argument - if classrooms are full of disruptive children and no-one is learning then how are they doing maths’ curriculums meant for children 5 years older? It’s one or the other (actually it’s neither).

But none of this thread or what you are asking is?

one of mine did Grammar the other one of the local mix comp (and not the better rated single sex) because it suits them

move to a set of decent schools by all means but stop worrying about decision that are years away

OP, you need to keep an eye on the new duty on local authorities to keep a register of home-schooled children. There is legislation on this being drafted at the moment. The purpose of the legislation is for local authorities to have a formal record of where every child is, to help keep children safe.

Another point to bear in mind is that schools are legally responsible for a child on their roll during school hours. That's why there are strict procedures about parental reporting of absences.

Typo

I had similar when I briefly lost them age 5 DS at a National trust place. I’m sure there was a shop somewhere, and maybe he could’ve aimed for the big house but finding someone with children nearby ( or even just staying put) was an infinitely better option than trying to get there through wilderness and formal gardens ( I think there was a lake too). As it happened I found him just as a helpful woman with kids was trying to work out where we were to help him.
OP this level of paranoia is not normal. You don’t have to answer, but I am wondering if you had awful childhood experiences that are clouding your judgement. If so that’s understandable, but you should really get some therapy before you pass on this anxiety to your children.

I think you need to look at how comprehensive schools work.

Some stream, very common in 11+ areas where the children who have passed 11+ but not got in the school can have a 'grammar stream'.

Another option most schools use is 'setting' so you might have 4-5 'sets'. So you can have a child who is in a top set for maths, but in set 3 for English.

It puts children of similar abilities together for individual subjects.

It has been used for decades, in my day the top 2-3 sets were entered for O Levels and lower sets did CSEs. So you could be doing 6 O Levels and 3 CSEs.

Not read most of the thread. But age 2 is way too young to know whether a child will pass the 11+. This is going back years but when I was at secondary school in the mid 1990's lots of parents would send their children to private school for primary and then try for the grammar. The grammar school would encourage hefty donations from parents, many of whom would pay because it was a lot cheaper than forking out for private secondary school.

Also schools change a lot. The school my dcs go to was fairly awful when my eldest was 2. It wasn't great when he started but the head teacher left when he was in year 9 and the new one has been great. Now the school is oversubscribed for the first time in many years and ofsted have rated them as "good".

and as they get older these things happen organically they do just become able to do th things.

What I think would be worth doing is when you do have a rule or boundary work out why. Is it because it is sensible one designed to protect your child - not talking to strangers, driving in a car with appropriate safety seating which are absolutely fine, or ones that are more looking at yiur child - when for example they are ready to be left at a party or a play date where there is a range

and ones fuelled by your own anxiety and need to be in control and know exactly where your children are

I never had a problem with others driving my DC tbh but in fact in the example I gave, my neighbour and I walked our DC the 10 mins to school. Another reason why it’s a good idea to live locally to your primary school.

BTW I notice @Karma1387 that you refer more than once to applying for primary schools you are not in catchment for. You do know I hope that submitting your form just indicates your preference, and if the out-of-catchment schools are oversubscribed by more local families, then you won’t be offered a place; instead you will be offered your nearest school that does have places. Just FYI and in case you were not aware.

But you've said you don't want friends and won't interact with other parents at school beyond basic civilities. So you won't have any neighbours that you chat to, or go for coffee with. You won't know any parents well enough (by your definition) to pick up your children up from school. Can you not see the disconnect between these two statements?

When my DC started school (and it was an infants school with attached nursery so only took children age 3-7 - which I think fits your definition of "young") I was amazed how many "random" people they came into contact with. I'd met their teacher and class TA at the parents' evening and a couple of induction sessions, and had felt comfortable I knew who my children would be mixing with. I hadn't factored in that the 2 Reception classes mixed freely for a lot of the day so they saw the other teacher and TA nearly as much as the ones in their own class. That two children had 1:1 learning support mentors who mixed generally with the class. That there was a cover supervisor one afternoon a week. That a Year 2 teacher sometimes ran sessions in a subject that was her particular interest. That there were any number of lunchtime supervisors. That the office staff would mix with the children. That volunteers from the PTA would come in to talk to the children and sometimes run activities. That there would be volunteer parent readers (who were not parents of children in the same year as that was school policy). That they had an outside sports provider come in sometimes. That teachers from the local juniors sometimes came to visit with junior school. children as a "bridging activity". That they had drama groups come in sometimes. That the vicar from the local church came in to talk about Christian festivals. You get the idea. My children knew a whole lot of adults that I hadn't considered at all, and many of whom I didn't know.

@Karma1387 it is perfectly ok for you to explain to your children your truths in your life but what isn’t is passing it over to them.

I love my mother but one thing I have constantly fought with her/against is exactly that. That because something is tricky or hard or impossible or not interesting to her it is the same for me. Which it isn’t I am a different person to her and where we do have traits in common we also have many not

and I think you have to be prepared for the fact that although the rules such as people taking your child places are fine and easy to implement in infant school they will get increasingly harder to do so.

Your children are not an extension of you they are individuals in their own rights and on so many levels you need to come to terms with that

But @Karma1387 you say you need to know the parent “well”. How will you ever get to that point if you refuse to speak to anyone you don’t know? if you won’t make friends as you don’t see the point? That is the point – making friends is not something to do bc “society expects it” – fgs. It’s to make your life easier in the examples I have given, and who knows, maybe to make it more pleasant. I’m trying to show you an example of why it can be a lifeline with young children to have friends or evenm just people you know vaguely who are in the same boat.

A neighbour I have chatted to and had a coffee with is not a close friend. I don’t really know them that well. Will I drop my DC round to them at 8.30 so they can take them to school with theirs as my other DC is chucking up and I need to stay home with them? Yes I will and I would be happy to reciprocate. I don’t need to see their DBS check before I am happy about the safety aspect.

Can you not see that your attitude (even for a parent of a pre-schooler) is way over the top and not at all usual? The birthday party question alone shows it.

I went to one of the best grammar schools in the country. Then tried the local 6th form college for a month before begging to return (and doing so).

The main difference was that the grammar students absolutely wanted to do well. They were unbelievably motivated to so. No acting up in class, respectful towards the teachers etc. Being the top student was not cringey.

My experience in the fairly well regarded college was that the students were just extremely disruptive. Lessons often got derailed due to immature behaviour. Merely covering the syllabus for each lesson was a struggle.

The attitude towards learning and education was fundamentally different. I loved my experience at the grammar. Not oppressive at all.

@Karma1387 your posts are starting to really worry me.

• You don’t have friends and don’t want any
• You ideally would like to ‘keep [your DC] at home’ – that’s what you said, not educate them at home, keep them at home
• You say “if” your DC makes friends at school
• You think there is a safeguarding issue with your school-age child talking to a parent in the classroom, with the teacher there
• You don’t see any need ever to talk to strangers (which seems to mean anyone except your immediate family) or for your DC to do so
• You would not allow anyone else to take your DC to school or to an activity unless you had known them for many years (which seems unlikely since you have no friends and don’t want any)
• You live in a small under-resourced town that is isolated from other centres of population (I am from South Lincs so I knew it well)
• As you are not married you have no legal claim on your partner’s salary or pension and you only work two shifts a week
• You didn’t like school and you think your DC won’t either
• You plan not to let them out of your sight with people you don’t know until they are seven

I realise that your DC are young and I think (hope) that as they grow older your views will mellow. But honestly, you are setting yourself and your DC up for a life of sad isolation. You don’t need to be best mates with the parents at school; but I cannot count the number of times I have been so relieved to know another mum to pick up/drop off/look after my DC in a low-key way. That’s not a random parent you don’t know. It’s a neighbour whose DC are similar age to yours whom you have chatted to a bit and gone for coffee with. It’s fine. What do you think is going to happen?

You say you prioritise safety – but it’s not safe to keep your DC away from society like this.

Please be prepared to trust people more. And please don’t “keep them at home” beyond school age. If you are their main model of socialisation then they really need school and other kids and adults. You say repeatedly you won’t discourage your DC from making friends – but can you not see that your very opposition to the idea and total lack of friends is a very discouraging model to them? That’s how parenting works – our DC see us, we are their first teacher, and we need to model the behaviour we want from them. No use saying “don’t shout” and then shouting; no use having no friends and then saying “oh but you can have some”.

And that last question about a party – at the very least you know the DC are in your child’s class/Beaver group/football team. Of course it is fine. And no I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable even if there were kids there I didn’t know. My child knows them. It’s all good.

You know that when your child is at school they will talk to people you don’t know? Maybe people they don’t know! What if there is a school visit from the fire service or the police or a drama group or a poet or an artist? Will you need school to call you to check if it’s OK for your DC to sit in the fire engine cab?

@Karma1387 yiu need to get some therapy to get your anxiety in check because trust me you aren’t going to survive parenting without it or without frankly passing these issues onto your child(ren)

take the friends parents - I agree a random parent but schools often have dbs checked parents and grandparents going who aren’t going to be strangers to them: by all means teach them not to talk to strangers to them but that isn’t the same as strangers to you

and stop worrying about his capability for the future he is 2 of course he isn’t ready for any of the things a 4/5 year old. My two have a 3.5 year gap so DD is 2 years older than a lot of DS friends sister and they sometimes look and ask how I am ok with letting her go into London etc because she is nearly 17 she wasn’t ready at 15 she is now

letting your children grow into being independent fully functioning beings is by far the hardest part of parenting by far because you have to incrementally let go small little piece at a time

you need to both recognise that and learn how to cope (and trust me it isn’t easy for any parent) but also that age limits and age appropriate suggestions are there for a reason. By the time you leave you year 2/3 year old (7/8) at a party they will be ready of course your current 2 year old isn’t

No? Why would I? Why would anyone be uncomfortable with this?

Of course not! We did it just last month. They aren’t random unknown children who turn up from nowhere, they are my daughter’s friends and part of our school community. I see them at pick up and drop off and in the park after school and say hi or “have a nice weekend” to them as we are going in and out of school. I have exchanged chit chat with their parents at pick up and drop off and from the class WhatsApp group and they can let me know if there’s anything to be aware of. Some of them have been over on play dates before and others haven’t but that is fine.

Why would I feel uncomfortable about having a group of children playing musical statues in my living room? What is there to feel uncomfortable about?

I also volunteer to support things at school like forest school or cycle training and I talk to the kids who do that. That doesn’t make me uncomfortable either and nor does it make me uncomfortable to know that when my kids do things like that there will be other parents there whom I don’t know who they may speak to as part of the activity.