How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

At that age surely the parents know what's best for their children's future.

Typo on my part.

But don’t ask their children what they want.

I would say with any selective school, whether state or Independent, it doesn’t have the race to the bottom mentality a lot of state school
kids have. No one wants to wilfully be bottom of the class in a grammar or private school.

Comprehension? Oxford and Cambridge aren’t the be all and end all.

I am so glad I live in a country where children mainly go to their catchment school and we don’t have this nonsense of putting pressure on 11 year olds to pass an exam to get into what is still a state school!

Almost as if parents know what's best

That’s a consequence of Labours attempt to kill off grammar schools, to be further exasperated by Labours latest attempt to kill off independent schools. They’re not big on education choice for children.

kundalini7 · Today 10:16

It's like Grammars in Wirral - they take the 'top' 50% or so and this translates into about 50% of their GCSE results being 9-7. Compare this to the grammar schools in Kingston-upon-Thames or the Latymer School in North London where thousands apply for 100 places each year. Results in these grammars are over 90% 9-7 at GCSE. Where populations are more dense, there is more competition. Grammars vary massively in terms of selectivity and results, depending on where they are.

I actually think the Grammar Schools in places like the Wirral and Lincolnshire (where my sister is a head of 6th Form at a Girls Grammar) have intakes that Grammar schools should have this being more localized in nature and not overtaken by 'Grammar School Tourism'. This, is to suggest grammar schools should not be solely the preserve of the 'super intelligent' from miles but a band around the top 25% of pupils resident in a localized area of say 10-15 miles. The tourism has obviously occurred due to the lack of availability of grammar schools and now worsened by the effect of VAT on Private Schools.

The difference in grammar school cohort depending on areas can be quite distinct, i know this as my two DD are at Essex Grammar schools and my sisters grammar only requires a 4 in Maths/English for Sixth form Entry and 6 grade-5-9's. This as opposed to 52/54 points over 8 subjects required by the Essex Grammar schools. The requirements no doubt being pushed up by out of town 'tourism' which is unfair on local children.

The grammars send more to Oxford and Cambridge. I remembered the local comprehension sent 0

You’d be surprised! Some parents are excellent at getting all sorts of accommodations for their academically gifted but challenged in other ways children. Separate room, visiting the room beforehand so they can check out any potential distractions/ read any posters beforehand. I had a friend who made sure they got everything possible covered. I had no idea these were possibilities before she told me!

I'd imagine they see a lot fewer SEN kids / kids that need additional provision (money) spent to accomodate them. Speaking as mum of a very bright SEN kid whose anxiety prevents her from testing well enough to pass 11+

I think you have to be guided by your children on this.

Some children are introverts and thrive in a home ed environment, some are extroverts and want to be at school. This is doubly difficult if the parent doing the home ed is introverted. The only way I could have kept my daughter happy at home would have been by socialising for several hours every day and that would have been beyond miserable for me.

What’s a sink school?

Are your children at nursery even though you’re at home?

There are loads of home educators in Cambridgeshire, why don’t you have a look into local groups and do some more research if that’s what you really want. Even if it’s just for the first few years. I’m also in favour of far more child centred education, especially for the early years, even though I was not brought up like that and before kids would have said I was far more focused on academic progress like your dh.
A lot of people are incredibly ignorant about home ed and assume the kids are actually at home all the time - we’re out at classes and groups for at least 3 hours most days, and they mix with kids of all ages, not just their year group. That does come at a cost though and everything is getting more expensive. Not everyone does as many structured groups though and there’s probably some free outdoor meet-ups near you.

The major problem here I see though is that both you and your partner are totally tunnel
vision on making sure your kids don’t have the bad experiences that you both had as kids. At some point you’re going to need to move past that and try to see what works best for your own children and understand that you need to deal with your own past traumas yourselves, not vicariously through your children.

I stand corrected.

We are in Gloucestershire which has a number of super selective grammars but there is no catchment so children can travel 30 miles+ to attend. there are both single sex and mixed sex schools so something else for you to consider.

My DD’s went to a single sex grammar which was fantastic for them. The teachers are amazing and regularly go the extra mile to help them.

There is a fair bit of pressure put on them (but equally support too) and they did need some tutoring as the exams here cover topics from the Y6 curriculum and also non-verbal reasoning which they need to get familiar with. This can be done by parents using readily available resources but I didn’t want to as we’d probably end up clashing and we were able to afford a tutor from the Spring of Y5 (c 6 months before the exams)

Luckily we already lived in the area so no decisions to make regarding location and they both got in. Our alternative would have been a comp c.30 mins travel away as the local comp near the grammar wasn’t great, although now improving.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

In your shoes I would buy a property next to a good grammar school that takes in some students that live in it's catchment. I live in Herts and we have at least 6 grammar schools in the catchment area. Unfortunately we moved out a couple of years ago and our son took the 11+. He did pass and got a school (not top of our list), but it would have been less stress if we stayed back in the town. When he was 4 y.o. it was obvious that he stood out among his peers, started reading and writing early, memorised timetables early, etc. Aged 5, he could quote word-by-word long speeches given by politicians on BBC. He still worked incredibly hard and didn't have a life in Y5 - it's incredibly competitive here and Math exam includes the curriculum up to Year 8, so you would need to do a lot of work at home. Tutoring business is booming as many kids start as early as Year 3. I have another child and though young, he is nowhere this talented, so he won't be trying. Many grammars here in the area take only 30% of kids through the 11+ and the rest is siblings + local area. Their A-level results are really good and many parents are well-educated, thinking about the future. DS went to a 'good' primary with lots of kids addicted to screens and very poor, disruptive behaviour and he was not happy, so we wanted something better for him. More parents tried 11+ this year because they were priced out of private schools, so it's just insane at the moment.

Both our DDs went to an all girls' grammar. Basically the 11+ creams off the most academic children, so the grammar school is basically one huge 'top set' under the same roof.

All round academic ability is very strong. Motivation is generally high and disruptive behaviour is low. Teachers can actually teach rather than just provide crowd control. Consequently exam results are routinely excellent and entrance into Oxbridge/RG universities are pretty much a forgone conclusion.

Sounds great, right? However, be warned these schools are essentially Exam Factories. If your child is struggling a bit to keep up, I'm afraid the school is very unlikely to care or provide support. They're not interested in stragglers.

Some tutoring for the 11+ is necessary regardless of how clever your child is. The 11+ papers look very alien and will be like nothing your child has seen before. The questions aren't especially hard, if given the time to ponder them, but you don't have any time because you only have 30 seconds per question.

A greater proportion of able children, AND, perhaps even more important, parents who value education and expect their kids to work and do well.

Hi OP. I haven't read the full thread, just your comments, so apologies if this has been covered already.

There are 'grammar schools' and there are 'grammar schools!' I see you were considering Lincolnshire. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that those grammars only 'cream off' the top 50% or so. So they're not that 'selective' at all really. Also, that area in general is a 'low participation in HE area,' meaning that academic norms / expectations are relatively low in comparison to other areas of the country. For instance, a comprehensive in an area with a higher % of children who enter HE would probably have higher academic standards than Lincolnshire grammars.

It's like Grammars in Wirral - they take the 'top' 50% or so and this translates into about 50% of their GCSE results being 9-7. Compare this to the grammar schools in Kingston-upon-Thames or the Latymer School in North London where thousands apply for 100 places each year. Results in these grammars are over 90% 9-7 at GCSE. Where populations are more dense, there is more competition. Grammars vary massively in terms of selectivity and results, depending on where they are.

The grammars in Buckinghamshire, Kent or Essex are probably 'mid' in terms of grammar school competitive entry. These schools might well be worth moving for, but obviously there is no guarantee your DC would get in. I have a friend whose DC is at a Bucks grammar and I think she said there are 4 applicants per place. So selective, but not insane like the London grammars where there might be 20 applicants per place.

As your kids are still pre-school, you can't tell if they are even academic yet. Anything could happen! It might be worth looking at somewhere with particularly good comprehensives. Obviously house prices will reflect this though.

Any comprehensive school will reflect its 'hinterland' - ie. the surrounding community who use the school and their attitude to education. Teachers can only do their best with whoever arrives in their classroom - they can't change the socio- economic environment around the school.

Personally, I would avoid Lincolnshire as it produced the highest % of Brexit voters in the U.K. I'm sure there are lovely people there, but there are lovely people everywhere.

If you're thinking Eastern England, the schools in Cambridge are very good - the Hills Rd sixth form etc. I'm sure there are other areas with similar excellent state schools.

Great advice for @Karma1387 in recent posts from @redskyAtNigh and @Holdinguphalfthesky

I don't think anyone disagrees that very academic children should be able to access suitable education, and that children who might be more suited to vocational options should also be able to access that.

But why pigeon hole children at 10/11? What about children who are academic but might be interested in studying or skilled in something vocational as well?
What about children with "spiky" profiles or those who just miss the grammar school cut off? What about children with SEN who need extra or particular support?

I personally feel that it's not that grammar schools are so great that is the reason that parents like them, but that they are (perceived or actually) better than other state school options for many children.

I don't think the answer is to create more grammar schools, but to improve the school system as a whole.