Private school fees- is it worth the £250k?

The way the world is I would want to be able to help my children as young adults. If you are absolutely loaded fine but unless the state school is truly dire I would save my money for them when older.

Graduate job market is horrifying. Met a mum whose son went to private school has a good Cambridge degree just graduated … and cannot find work.

Primrose86
Cut off by your parents when you eloped at 22... I definitely want to hear more of your story :-)

But you are right. We have no idea how the World is going to change over the course of our children's lives, as the boomers and gen x exit the stage.

My own, dearly departed parents, would be mystified that people serving coffee have a degree and that average tradesman earns more than the average Dr. Shaping your children and giving them the skills and attitude to succeed is the most important things we can do as parents.

Can I ask why USA universities aren't as popular? Is it gun related, Trump related or just too expensive (less scholarships)?

Really, only you can answer that. I'm in a similar boat (I can afford it, but it's a lot of money!). I drew a flow chart. Mine ended with yes, you can afford it and yes you should go private. Yours may not.
I can still provide DC with a house deposit and probably pay for uni (if they live at home and get jobs for their pocket money). If I couldn't then I wouldn't. I also wouldn't dip into my retirement savings for a school 'upgrade'.

I've mainly seen Indie children do better than state with university offers and eventual careers but I've seen state children do really well and a couple of Indie kids crumble. That was all down to he parents. The successful state ones really pushed their children to think about their futures from an early age. Those who didn't do well from Indies had parents who thought the school would do everything and that an Indie was a straight forward path to the best university and then best jobs. Ultimately all children are finding it really hard to get a job and many are realising university is not the answer. So state or Indie you need to start the conversations early and get them to take ownership of their futures.

I was always state all the way but the new Welfare Bill has me very nervous - how are they going to manage moving all the SEN pupils into mainstream without making a balls up of the education of all pupils? They haven't funded it properly and teachers won't be trained properly. Some schools will be hit worse than others, some are already set up to deal with this but others will struggle. It just makes me really, really uncomfortable to think this could be implemented just as my DC start secondary. I really just want my DC have a happy childhood.

You could start state and see how you get on. Keep a very, very close eye on it. Then you have the option of moving to private by year 9 or even home education. I don't subscribe to children having a full day at school then having to have extra tutoring in the evening just to make up for lack of teaching at a state. That's a horrible environment for any child to have to live in. Evenings are for homework, relaxation and extra curricular.

Before deciding, I think it’s worth separating income from savings and looking at both properly.

Are the school fees something you can comfortably cover from your ongoing income without it feeling tight? If so, that’s very different from needing to dip into savings each year.

Then look at what your savings are currently doing. Are they invested and growing? Would using them slow down long-term plans like retirement, property, or other investments? Or would they largely remain intact while fees are paid from income?

It’s also worth thinking about:

• How stable is your income?
• How many years you’d be committing for
• Whether there are other big financial goals coming up
• How comfortable you are with reducing your financial buffer
• Whether you’ve stress-tested things if income dropped

And finally — do you have a financial adviser who can run a proper long-term cashflow plan? Seeing it mapped out over time usually makes the decision much clearer.

At your level, it may not be about affordability so much as priorities and how you want to allocate resources over the long term. Get a financial advisor to do some stress testing for tou.

Always choose the school with the best pastoral care and you’ll mostly hear how good a school is, by word of mouth. A happy child will thrive.

I don’t get all the daggers about independent schools.

As a parent, choose where you want your child to be educated and get on with it.

Choose where you want to take your holidays, Bognor Regis or Croatia and get on with it.

Choose where you want to buy your groceries, Waitrose or Iceland and get on with it.

I’m happy with my choice for independent, and got on with it. Money well spent. ONLY YOU as a parent knows what will suit your child. Some ransoms on the internet who live a whole different life to you, cannot say what is best for your child.

100% this. I couldn't agree more. (Privately educated myself)

Our experience of private vs state was exactly the opposite. Horrible bullying in private, children getting away with murder because their wealthy and influential parents would complain about any consequences, discipline non-existent, children school refusing or being pulled out of certain lessons (like games) because of being bullied, children having sex and drinking on school trips, pupils assaulting staff. State school very strict on behaviour by comparison, no favouritism, clear and immediate consequences for any misbehaviour, very little disruption in lessons. Not sure if it makes any difference but our private school pulls most of its pupils from incredibly wealthy backgrounds who are there from nursery all through to sixth form and is very big on sport, I know some others are more focused on academics and have more pupils joining at different points (so perhaps less cliquey). Some parents at our state school complain about the school being too strict on minor infringements (like uniform) but I'd rather have that than the law of the jungle we had in the private.

Anecdotal….the best sort of evidence!

State with tutoring as necessary. The cream always rises to the top. Mine did very well all through state schools, went to RG uni’s and are now in grad jobs/doing internships as part of their masters. They are hardy characters though, resilient, sociable and sporty and had access to excellent extra curricular activities which tbh were the making of them as much as the education. Uni cost us a fortune in a bid to leave them in as little debt as possible but I’m glad we did it this way.

Both our DSs got into the top 5 red brick unis of their choice. Conversely, I work with a lot ppl who sent their children to highly respected independent schools & achieved lower results and didn’t get into the top tier Unis or competitive courses of their choice. Independent schools are not a sure bet — I noted that cultural background and/or parent’s input played a bigger role for some.

But maybe their children were happy, socially well adjusted, and had good results for them.

My DC at private school isn’t academic. She’s at an independent school which had a strong focus on sport and friendships and is thriving. There will definitely be kids from their primary who are at state and will get better results academically, but that doesn’t mean my DC would have done ‘better’ at state.

We could have just about afforded an independent school but we looked at what our children were interested in and what appealed to them. We moved to the catchment of a state secondary that has been Ofsted outstanding for years. We have always been interested in our children’s interests and development & supported them with their interests. We didn’t hothouse them but allowed them to evolve their interests. They achieved outstanding results in most of their GCSEs and A levels. We accepted when they said that some compulsory subjects (RE) were of no interest to them and agreed with them that they focus on those that mattered to them. I supported them with their UCAS apps. Both our DSs got into the top 5 red brick unis of their choice. Conversely, I work with a lot ppl who sent their children to highly respected independent schools & achieved lower results and didn’t get into the top tier Unis or competitive courses of their choice. Independent schools are not a sure bet — I noted that cultural background and/or parent’s input played a bigger role for some.

This is a great perspective. One shot at it. The one shot really does shape who they are and what their future will look like. They spend the best part of their day at school - it needs to be a place where they are happy and will thrive. Where the challenges and obstacles are met with support and can be overcome.

My ds is at a top selective school. Where there’s zero tolerance for the stuff I’ve read on here. A child would be expelled for some of the stuff that’s brushed off on here too. If anything, your ds earned a place at the private school, doesn’t that say something? His academic potential will be nurtured individually and there will be lots of effort to ensure he thrives. If you’re certain he will get that at both schools, then save the money.

people also sometimes only look at it from an academic perspective and feel it’s a waste of money. It’s so much more than that. The environment, the types of children who are your kids peers, their day to day happiness, the type of relationships you have with the school and teachers and so much more.

Kids only get one childhood and one chance at an education. The memories stay with them for a life time. Hence, you choose a school where your child will flourish academically, socially and extracurricularly. How the school is funded (whether by the state or yourselves) should not be the primary consideration.

If you genuinely believe he will truly flourish in the local secondary send him there. If he will not, then do not.
For some children, they need to be local, have local friends etc and that is more likely to make them flourish then sending them off to a highly academic competitive independent school miles away.
What kind of child your child is and where they will flourish having looked at all the options available to you, is an important choice parents need to make. And you need to be on the same page as your DH. So both have to look at all the options and understand your DS to the same extent and neither of you should be swayed by your own experiences too much.

You have a point - particularly state schools that aren’t close to grammars can be good options.

I just think it really depends on the kids and what options they have and parents need to make the best choice for them. If things don’t work out they can always redirect later etc.

What evidence do you want. It’s absolutely the case and always has been. Anecdotal only but I have 3 kids in private secondary - almost
all of their friends are having fees paid in whole or part by grandparents. We are unusual to be paying out of income and thanks to the imposition of VAT and freezing of income tax thresholds we will be sending our youngest child to state until year 9 as even on relatively high incomes we can’t make the numbers work anymore. I know because I am friends with the parents and they told me. The parents are generally quite high earning btw - but that’s why they are able to afford nice houses, big holidays and school fees. If it’s from earnt income unless you are a super high earning household (or one child only) it is impossible to do more than 2 of the 3 generally and even that is difficult.

Lots of doctors with kids in private btw. Consultants are rightly paid 6 figures and many have a private practice on top.

the demographic paying school fees (or not really) is going to change over the next 10 years though - I first bought property in 2001 and that has helped meaning my mortgage is manageable for a large home (bought 2012). People that only go on the ladder 2015 onwards are going to struggle much more I think.

Not all kids can get into Grammar schools but still want to learn. I guess one thing on the side of the OP is as they are no Grammar schools in the area then the brightest kids are at the local state schools.

Often people want a nurturing, non pressured, calmer environment where education is the focus.

I say this as a working class state educated person who went to a Russell Group. There is a phenomenal difference between my school experience and my DHs as he went to Pvte School, I had better results as I’m naturally bright and worked hard. But I would have loved his school experience over mine.

Thanks @dancingredshoes . Happy, safe, flourishing environments seem to get overlooked in favour of pure results. My dc are bright but tbh not geniuses!They are not going to Oxbridge but will do well.
I just want a school they enjoy with lots of extra curriculum, nice kids and interested , motivated teachers.

Mine had an offer from a top independent school and a superselective grammar school. Chose the latter and we’re very happy with our decision. If we didn’t have the grammar option we would have opted independent though - he’s such a high performing child we wanted to make sure he had all the opportunities.

Would you ever consider moving to a grammar area, if he’s not happy with the comp starting this september? The difference between a (super selective) grammar and a comp is that it’s so easy to find likeminded peers, and it’s actually “cool” to be highly academic. Really depends on the child, but I know mine would have really struggled in any comprehensive.

Same here. The academic kids in DD's year are off to similar destinations to the academic kids from the independent schools - Oxbridge, Russell Group, UAL, Royal College of Music, a couple of European universities. None have applied to US ivy League universities, but the USA is less appealing as a university destination these days. They've played in sports teams and musical ensembles, performed in plays and concerts, taken part in competitions and societies. DS is doing an additional GCSE in a state/private school partnership and doesn't notice any real difference between the privately educated children and the ones from his comprehensive, or between the quality of teaching.

We don't live in an exclusive wealthy area, either. My street is a fairly socially mixed council estate with families ranging from professionals to long-term benefits claimants. Our family income is below the national household average.

@Acommonreaderi think you have made a really important point.

A lot of really good state schools (not grammar schools) are in very expensive catchment areas. And without causing offence, means the likelihood of having a better learning environment and less disruption for everyone is much higher. My child has got into a a great school because I live in a flat not a house or else there is no way I’d be able to afford the catchment area. Many friends I know live in impressive houses in cheaper areas of the country, but now they’re thinking of secondary schools the standard or state schools are pretty dismal (think knife crime etc)! It’s because of these incidences they are now looking at private schools.

If you live in an area with great state schools utilise them (not all state schools are horrendous and scary) if they aren’t and you can afford it then I’d pay private! As people say, we all want our kids to learn in safe spaces.

Same. We have three teenagers in state school at the moment, all predicted string of 8s /9s at GCSE. All have lovely groups of friends.

Zero drinking/drugs /violence and lots of great hobbies and friendships

Admittedly I don't know what lower ability classes are like but they have had a lovely time in the top sets

I am glad we kept the cash to fund uni and house deposits

I was listening to a group of private school teens when on a train recently and they sounded far more feral -lots of talk of drugs and promiscuity

I don't think we can generalise about either sector