To think Lowe is going to wipe the floor with Farage?

Well, as I posted above - the business I work for has vacancies that can’t be filled with native low earners/unemployed, because they don’t want them.

We don’t advertise specifically to overseas candidates, we market and advertise to everyone, and I cannot stress enough that the reason those vacancies aren’t filled by natives is because of lack of interest.

I’d recommend doing something about that before we start taking people who are working out of the workforce.

I’d also point out the majority of overseas candidates that we employ how no recourse to publics funds, so they’re not claiming benefits and sitting around, they’re working challenging jobs that some of those on UC won’t do.

@Bringemout Bllionares are paying very little tax though, aren’t they? Jim Ratcliffe moved to Monaco to avoid it. It’s greed. Nobody needs that amount of money. Why do you think that most people who are speaking out publicly about immigrants are filthy rich or taking bribes? ‘’Don’t look over here’’ 🤣

They're out to enrich themselves further, the lot of them.

But that’s the issue; just because you’re okay doesn’t mean everyone is.

If we don’t have the money for funding (which we don’t as proven during this govt) then something has to give. We can’t keep a bloated welfare state forever and adding to the population if those people aren’t contributing enough. We already have enough low income and unemployed natives.

Harsh but that’s the country at the moment. We really are a tipping point financially it seems.

I don’t think they are, they want something to change and they’re using votes to get it. It’s actually working pretty well so far, even with Labour in power.

The fears of the WC have always been sneered at by those favouring right wing politics.
If WC people have poor quality of life they're told they should "get off their arses, work harder and better themselves."
If they live in substandard overcrowded accommodation they should have "made better life choices".
If they are poor and need welfare support they are "scroungers".
When anyone states the blindingly obvious, that the policies that would help WC people involve investment of public money in the services they use, the improvement of their neighbourhoods, plus additional money in their pockets, they are "a drain on the hardworking high earning tax payer".
When anyone suggests any sort of levelling up, then they're being given unfair advantage over a middle class child.
The only issue on which right wing parties "listen to the WC" is when pockets of them are persuaded that the cause of their disadvantage is immigration, and they can engage them in call and response.

Mainly because the area I’m from isn’t affected in any of the ways you’ve just described.

It doesn’t matter how much I’m told an immigrant is stealing my doctor if I can get a routine Drs appointment within a week or so.

And that’s before we consider that it’s not an immigrants fault that the services we’re talking about are underfunded and have been for decades.

It’s a pattern that keeps repeating and I think its testament to the fact that people who are living in deprived areas are feeling unheard and left behind, but also suggests that they lack the understanding to recognise when they are being manipulated to vote against their own interests. So actually, I think it means quite a lot

Ruper Lowe is a racist idiot.
Those who have had dealings with him in the past all know that.

Possibly, but my argument would be that many of the jobs that immigrants do, our own unemployed won’t.

I manage a recruitment business, which heavily focusses on health care assistants for some of our SENd jobs. We also employ school cleaners, lunchtime staff, catering assistants.

I would estimate we fill those roles with 90% overseas candidates - we advertise them to everyone. Jobs need filling, and if UK born UC claimants don’t want them, they’ll still have to be filled.

We also can’t complain about people coming and being a resource drain, and also complain about them working.

It allows people to come at the issue with perceived academic authority and ignore any lived experiences if it doesn’t fit their world view.

Because resources are already stretched and there has been a lot of media around new arrivals being given things locals can’t access. GP appts, NHS dentists, social housing etc.

How could you not be resentful if you’re in an area affected? I can see where the anger comes from (whether it’s justified or not).

I think it’s trying to understand people and why they vote the way they do rather than just labelling everyone. This country has serious failures across the board and people are seemingly getting angrier.

Except this is nonsense isn’t it, there isn’t a pie that billionaires are taking too much of. You can’t tax your way to growth. Jobs, reasonably priced housing and reasonably priced energy is what gets an economy moving, people employed and earnings growing.

A giant welfare state does not create growth.

I didn’t say it wasn’t the case I said it doesn’t mean much.

Probably competition for low paid jobs is the assumption. Labours helpful minimum wage legislation and NI changes have already destroyed a bunch of part time jobs. Estimates of 100k-250k jobs lost since the budget.

Growing up in poverty has nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with successive governmental decisions, and billionaires who want to keep getting richer at the expense of poorer people because when people are miserable and angry, it’s easier to punch down at easy targets than to challenge power.

If you’re concerned about poverty then nothing Farage or Lowe have proposed or hinted at will change that, only make it worse. Immigration is being weaponised for political ends and it’s a tale as old as time.

Tbh as a brown person, I don’t really care at this point what his motives are, what happened to those girls is appalling. I’m getting increasingly pissed off with the attitude of “we need to care more about whether we like the person exposing injustice than the actual injustice itself”. For whatever reason, in this particular thing he’s doing gods work, anyone who’s read anything these women have said about the abuse and torture they suffered would have a bit more sympathy for them rather than the smug, self congratulatory tone we see here.

The behaviour around the match in Birmingham indicates people are still tiptoeing around racial sensitivities. The best way to have a society that is cohesive is if everyone is policed exactly the same. We aren’t there and Labours ridiculous Islamaphobia laws will just make this worse.

I wouldn’t be voting either reform (they initially wanted to remove the 2 child tax credit cap, fundamentally disagree with more welfare expansion) or for respect but I think some of the reactions to either of those parties is hysterical.

Also the way we fund the NHS meeds massive reforms, thats just a fact, the current system is sucking up money and not delivering. Something has to change there.

People keep saying WC people are being suckered by reform yet Labour has broken many a manifesto promise or sprung stuff that wasn’t in the manifesto. If anyones a sucker here it’s anyone who voted for Labour…right?

You can be working class and go to university 😂

I am working class, and I still genuinely don’t understand what fears someone would have regarding immigration that are specific to the working class.

If immigration is a problem, why would it be (allegedly) a working class problem, and not an everyone problem?

It’s very interesting that Labour started as a party for the working man and are now more favoured by degree holders.

You could say they’ve forgotten their core demographic which has opened the door for parties like Reform. This should be looked into more.

Experience mean nothing to the sneering degree holders on MN.

A lot genuinely couldn’t understand growing up in poverty or doing a ‘dirty job’. It’s easier to sneer at the working class rather than listen to their fears and try to work on policies to help assist them.

Well, statistics do tend to disagree

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

I don’t think education levels mean that much beyond seeing it cited on mn. People bring their own experiences to the decision and everyone gets a vote.

Well, you're right that there are some Oxbridge educated racists. Sadly, that won't be a massive surprise to any of us who studied in Oxford or Cambridge. There were plenty of misogynists and homophobes too, sadly. And contrary to what some on this thread seem to believe, they certainly weren't all working class so I'm not really sure where that stereotype has come from.

When you look at the bigger picture though, education levels do actually correlate quite strongly with voting patterns. And whether you like it or not, being more educated does make you less likely to vote for Reform, and vice versa.

I really don't understand why it is considered classist to assume that not all racists are working class and not all working class people are racist. Isn't it deeply offensive to working class people to dismiss racism as just a class issue?

Sorry, it stopped me from editing.

Albanian and Romanian criminal gangs raping white British girls which is really supporting concerns about asylum and immigration which is what this thread is about - Reform and other candidates being against a system which allows criminals and rapists to come to the UK and commit crimes.

I really think you're making a fool of yourself here

What a thing to say. Well done for highlighting your classism and snobbery. The only people who appear narrow minded and lacking in intelligent thought are those who make comments like yours. You might want to start reading the btl comments in the guardian - mass immigration and rapid demographic change is not so fondly regarded by many from the middle/ upper classes as it once was either. Or do they join your ' thicko ', uneducated pile too? How about Cambridge educated John cleese, is he a bit lacking in intellect?