My head is spinning. Am I in the wrong here or is he?!

Your DH sounds meloramatic..it's not threatening.

He needs one more 'if'
If you you don't book by x date, me and children will be going alone 😅

In the example you gave, when is the proposed holiday meant to take place? What is the time frame here?

Does this loosely translate to unwilling to put the work in himself, but unwilling to give you what you need to get a job done? So nothing gets organised either way.

Newly fascinated by the mention of demand avoidance... I'd only heard it mentioned in relationship to children and only recently thought what happens when those kids grow up and they don't have a 1:1 TA tailoring every request to try not and set them off (a friend was describing her job).

Are people with this really cut out for marriage and the responsibility of co-parenting? Is there anyone on this thread who could attest to that? If you have to pander to a spouse like a child it sounds like a quick way to kill the relationship.

And how do you know when it's just abuse? Does there need to be an autism/adhd diagnosis alongside? I feel like there are so many instances of abuse and controlling behaviour that could be "explained" by such diagnoses, but does that really lessen the impact on loved ones?

It just sounds so hard OP.

Omg yes you're right! I've asked mn to delete it. Always wondered how pp managed to post on the wrong thread and now I know.

My reply would be
its not a threat it’s an unavoidable consequence you dick.

He seems unable to understand that his actions ( or inaction ) have logical consequences.

or he expect to do as he likes and have someone else deal with the consequences for him.

No wonder you are frustrated at his unwillingness to take accountability like an adult .

re: the holiday - just book for you and your DC after maybe 2 discussions.

HOWEVER the gaslighting of calling you threatening, refusing to accept his part in all this, the lack of accountability for his delays in getting back to you know that your DS is also impacted …..these are much more serious issues for me.

It doesn’t sound like you have kids, I’d call it a day. Phrased like no one should have to be in a threatening relationship, you tell me clearly you think you are so I am going to release you, and I’m going to look for someone who can hold a conversation about plans without being triggered.

my Dh was he same anti was so so stressful. I ended up in psychosis

I think you're on the wrong thread, though to be sure the OP's DH is a pain in the fundament.

@Whataa , your tone, register and vocabulary are not the issue. If you "corrected" each one, he'd find another one to hold against you.

You might as well please yourself.

I can see how it comes across as threatening to him, but unless either the thing you've asked him to do or the consequence is unreasonable and out of the ordinary, it's really just a statement of fact and of cause and effect. "If you don't give me £ 100K by midnight tonight, you'll never see your dog again" is threatening, "If we don't book our holiday this week, we'll need to push the dates back" is not.

But I'd be less worried about how you're phrasing your requests that he do the things he's committed to doing and more worried about why he can't get them done in a reasonable time frame in the first place, and why he can't discuss either the larger problem or the immediate issue without shifting the blame to you.

@Whataa

@sprigatito has hit the nail right on the head. It's controlling behaviour. He's training you to never question him and never expect him to do anything. And the dragging his feet on everything is also a method of training you. It's probably training you to do everything yourself rather than expect him to do it. How long have you been with this guy? There aren't any real clues as to whether this is a long relationship or a short one.

'If' is not remotely threatening unless it's followed by, gee, an actual threat. What you are doing is explaining the effect of his inaction:

"If we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work etc etc etc" is NOT a threat.

"If we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work shoot you/leave you/kick the dog" IS a threat.

See the difference?

Sounds like a petulant teenager. Shutting you down all the time and walking off when they don't like what you say. Just tell him what you're doing and it's up to him whether he joins in or not. If you're just talking about general arrangement s I find saying get to fuck works quite well.

Was going to say much the same as @DrinkFeckArseBrick. "If..." is NOT usually a threat, just a statement of potential consequences. "If you don't stop the car I'm going to lamp you" is clearly a threat, but "If you don't stop you're going to hit that car" is a warning of what's likely to happen if ignored.

In this case, you aren't threatening that YOU will enact some horrible revenge on him if he doesn't sort the holiday, just explaining that if it's not sorted soon, certain negative things are likely to happen as a consequence, not because YOU did them to be nasty, but because that's how life/workplaces/holiday bookings work. That he's choosing to take these perfectly normal sorts of statements this way is entirely on him - and I bet he DOESN'T start mithering about feeling "threatened" if his boss/friend says something similar!

If anything, he's threatening YOU with this gaslighting and guilt-tripping behaviour - it's basically saying "If you try to make me do things when I don't want to (even for good reasons), I'll bully and guilt-trip you till you feel so bad you won't do it again". It sounds quite controlling and nasty.

Would you go on holiday without him? If you would, could you say I am planning to book the holiday by x date. These are dates I had in mind. Can you please check if this works for you? No reminders. Just ask when you come to book that the date is ok. If he says not sure, not checked looks like you are going by yourself. He moans, then point out he does not like ‘threatening’ so done it his way.

Try saying but instead.

I bet he doesn't whine about being threatened when he's given deadlines at work.

@Whataa Impossible to say, OP. The only way it would be possible to judge this one would be for someone to directly witness the conversations in person.

One possible scenario is that you frequently use a bullying tone and constantly shout at him which is having an impact on his well-being, causing him to associate specific sentence structures (like the use of 'if') with threats.

Another possible scenario is that you are not a bully, and you are speaking with a completely normal, relaxed, and approachable tone of voice. DP is dragging his feet and being lazy, and he is accussing you of being threatening to justify his laziness.

And then there are other scenarios...

No one can say which scenario is correct without directly witnessing the conversations.

Certainly sounds like it from the latest update.

No one should have to remove the word "if" from their vocabulary just because their partner doesn't like to have any small demand put on him.

I would rephrase it going forward: ‘I have booked the holiday on the following dates and will assume that you are choosing not to come with us unless you also book the time off work. Can you confirm by x date whether you would like me to add you to the flight/hotel booking’. Or ‘I am taking the children to legoland on Saturday and leaving at 8am. We will assume you are not joining us if you are not ready to leave at that time.’ Etc.

No Ifs. No ‘threats’… just stated plan of action.

"demand avoidance"?
Oh yes, that's bullshit for "being a belligerent twit" isnt it.