Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think male nursery workers should be banned for safety reasons?

433 replies

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 18:47

I KNOW most men who work in them are fine but sexual abuse in nurseries is overwhelmingly committed by men. No more men, much less abuse risk.
Yes we need more CCTV etc to watch bad women but it cuts SA risk immeasurably.

We can still have male primary teachers etc kids are old enough to speak up then.

And yes, you can ban on the basis of sex for safety reasons. In women's refuges, eg.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Carla786 · 13/02/2026 23:15

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:13

Most children aren't SEN. Those cases need to be considered as edge cases to the majority case. This is about broad brush policies to protect as many children as we can from abuse

This

OP posts:
balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:15

SouthLondonMum22 · 13/02/2026 23:14

SA.

Other forms of abuse don't seem to be as important for some reason.

This thread is about sexual abuse...

SouthLondonMum22 · 13/02/2026 23:14

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:13

Most children aren't SEN. Those cases need to be considered as edge cases to the majority case. This is about broad brush policies to protect as many children as we can from abuse

SA.

Other forms of abuse don't seem to be as important for some reason.

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:14

titdttlhm · 13/02/2026 23:12

I know a male teacher who refused to get involved in that kind of care to protect himself. Sensibly too.

Of course, by school age, your children, without medical reasons, shouldn't need a teacher to help them with toileting anyway.

Exactly what I mean by safe and normal male teachers knowing why toileting help isn't their role

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:13

SouthLondonMum22 · 13/02/2026 23:10

Not all SEN children will be verbal or as verbal as a typical 4 year old.

Most children aren't SEN. Those cases need to be considered as edge cases to the majority case. This is about broad brush policies to protect as many children as we can from abuse

titdttlhm · 13/02/2026 23:12

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:04

I would absolutely be getting police involved if a male teacher thought it was his role to "help" any of my DC with toileting in any way. Normal and safe male teachers would understand why

I know a male teacher who refused to get involved in that kind of care to protect himself. Sensibly too.

Of course, by school age, your children, without medical reasons, shouldn't need a teacher to help them with toileting anyway.

CypressGrove · 13/02/2026 23:11

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 23:09

That's really sad. I've got some friends who are long-term teachers , not in the UK, and they are seeing the same.

SouthLondonMum22 · 13/02/2026 23:10

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:01

I've answered my personal policy on this above. But overall the risk is much lower given the children are older, able to communicate in words, most children are able to go to the loo independently.

Not all SEN children will be verbal or as verbal as a typical 4 year old.

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 23:09

CypressGrove · 13/02/2026 23:07

Well that's an appalling statistic that needs to be addressed. Not by banning male teachers - I'd like to see a better balance of male and female teachers overall - but by early intervention. There should not be so many children going to school not toilet trained.

It's not just toilet training either.

www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/22/children-england-start-school-without-being-toilet-trained-teachers

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 23:09

The David Finkelhor book was in 1988. The US was reeling from the fake Satanic Panic McMartin nursery cases, so they may have been more inclined to brush off the issue. But clearly it was serious back then.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nursery-Crimes-Sexual-Abuse-Care/dp/0803934009

OP posts:
CypressGrove · 13/02/2026 23:07

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:36

Okay, so a survey of teachers by early years charity Kindred Squared showed one in four children are starting school in Reception aren't toilet trained, meaning teachers are expected to help them go to the loo. Shall we ban men from working as Reception teachers too?

Well that's an appalling statistic that needs to be addressed. Not by banning male teachers - I'd like to see a better balance of male and female teachers overall - but by early intervention. There should not be so many children going to school not toilet trained.

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 23:05

This was in 1993. It's been known for a long, long time.

Most recent data comes from the United States. One of the world's most respected researchers, David Finkelhor, reports in his book Nursery Crimes that 60 per cent of the perpetrators of sexual abuse in day care were men, even though males represented only 1-10 per cent of the staff there. The researchers expressed surprise that 'men, who constitute a small proportion of day-care workers, should commit such a disproportionate amount of abuse'. Similar findings have been produced in virtually all fields of child welfare.

If men had been banned then, how many children could have been kept safe from nursery CSA?

OP posts:
Carla786 · 13/02/2026 23:04

This article in 1993 from the Independent had an interesting letter section. I quote 3:

Should men work with children?: We asked for your views, following the nursery abuse case
Sunday 09 May 1993 00:02 BST

I WORKED as a therapist with women who had been sexually abused as children. I
would suggest that all men who seek careers in nursery education should be regarded with the deepest suspicion. It is a most unusual career for a young man to choose, and the motivation of each male applicant should be thoroughly investigated and his personal, medical and psychiatric history researched in depth. I am much more interested in the safety and well-being of children under five than I am in promoting equal opportunities for men in the field of nursery education.

Margaret Taylor

Bromley, Kent

THE DATA which is available on sexual abuse by welfare professionals clearly indicates that the question raised by Angela Neustatter has to be taken very seriously indeed.

Most recent data comes from the United States. One of the world's most respected researchers, David Finkelhor, reports in his book Nursery Crimes that 60 per cent of the perpetrators of sexual abuse in day care were men, even though males represented only 1-10 per cent of the staff there. The researchers expressed surprise that 'men, who constitute a small proportion of day-care workers, should commit such a disproportionate amount of abuse'. Similar findings have been produced in virtually all fields of child welfare.

Of course, many male welfare carers do not abuse. The problem is that it seems from the evidence that the risk of male carers abusing may be much greater than that for females, and we do not seem to be able to distinguish those who will abuse from those who will not. Given, then, that men appear to account for a massive proportion of sexual abuse in welfare settings, why is so little consideration given to the option of restricting their role?

At the end of the day we are talking about balancing 'rights' against one another. In the light of the evidence, which 'right' is more important: that of men to work in the professions of their choice; or that of children not to be sexually abused?

Keith Pringle

Senior Lecturer in Applied Social Studies, University of Sunderland

MICHELE Elliott of Kidscape believes that if men are prevented from working with children then it is a 'sacrifice that has to be made'.
IN response to your article on whether men should work with children, I would like to say what it is like from the abuser's point of view.

I was abused throughout my school years, from the age of seven, by house staff, teachers, cleaners, older boys, the school doctor and matron.

I left school and found that I loved working with younger children. It was easy getting a job: you didn't have to say anything about your past, or how you would deal with naughty children. I thought that some sexual abuse was wrong, but it wasn't talked about. I abused boys into my twenties: by fantasy, using their images to fulfil my needs - a form of abuse; and by 'playfighting' in the swimming pool or while watching television with them.
I believe very strongly that all jobs where young children are involved should have a written test on how one deals with their problems, such as crying and wetting themselves. Men must be asked about their past, and police records must be made available
Gracewell Clinic for Sex Offenders did not work for me: I soon found myself back working with children and abusing them again. I am now in prison, about to start a programme to help control my sexual urges towards children.
Helping victims is very important, but helping abusers not to abuse more children when they leave prison is also important. That must come from society - by having better policies on recruiting men into childcare, and by pushing the Government to provide help and advice to both abused and abuser, 24 hours a day if necessary.

Name and address withheld

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/should-men-work-with-children-we-asked-for-your-views-following-the-nursery-abuse-case-2321851.html

Should men work with children?: We asked for your views, following the

THE IDEA of preventing men from working with children because they pose more of a threat to them than women is a very interesting one. Since male drivers cause more road accidents, deaths and injuries than female ones, I propose that we immediately ban...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/should-men-work-with-children-we-asked-for-your-views-following-the-nursery-abuse-case-2321851.html

OP posts:
balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:04

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 23:01

You'd call the police? I hope your kids never have a male teacher, for the teacher's sake.

I would absolutely be getting police involved if a male teacher thought it was his role to "help" any of my DC with toileting in any way. Normal and safe male teachers would understand why

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 23:01

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:59

I would rather my own DC had to wait a little bit to be helped to change by a female teacher or for me to come and get them than a male teacher help with this. If a male teacher touched any of my children in this way I would be involving the police

Edited

You'd call the police? I hope your kids never have a male teacher, for the teacher's sake.

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 23:01

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:59

Okay, but what about male teachers working in EYS in primary schools, where 1 in 4 kids aren't toilet trained?

I've answered my personal policy on this above. But overall the risk is much lower given the children are older, able to communicate in words, most children are able to go to the loo independently.

titdttlhm · 13/02/2026 23:01

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:59

Okay, but what about male teachers working in EYS in primary schools, where 1 in 4 kids aren't toilet trained?

Parents really need to up their game (except where there is SEN, of course, that can't be helped). Maybe there should be a policy that parents, or someone they nominate, like a grandparent, gets called every time if a child needs that kind of care? Protects the teachers and the children. If it's inconvenient, parents can just take the time to toilet train their trainable children.

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:59

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:57

Let me correct myself sorry. Your feelings about DH career choice. They are irrelevant to the actual facts here that we can quickly and easily reduce real cases and risk of CSA in early years settings by removing male workers outright

Okay, but what about male teachers working in EYS in primary schools, where 1 in 4 kids aren't toilet trained?

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:59

FredbassetOT · 13/02/2026 22:56

So a man can provide care and support for a child who is 4yrs and 1 day old in a primary school, but not a child who is rising 5 in a nursery setting? Now there's consistent.

Or Mr Mann can help you with your maths but you are going to have to remain in wet pants until Mrs lady comes back from whatever errand she's running because Mr Mann isn't allowed to help you change?

I would rather my own DC had to wait a little bit to be helped to change by a female teacher or for me to come and get them than a male teacher help with this. If a male teacher touched any of my children in this way I would be involving the police

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:57

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:54

Where have I mentioned my DH's feelings about this?

Let me correct myself sorry. Your feelings about DH career choice. They are irrelevant to the actual facts here that we can quickly and easily reduce real cases and risk of CSA in early years settings by removing male workers outright

FredbassetOT · 13/02/2026 22:56

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 19:07

Men can be in caring roles like nursing or primary school teaching.

Is the nursery issue specifically worth the children who will likely be abused if men are not banned?

So a man can provide care and support for a child who is 4yrs and 1 day old in a primary school, but not a child who is rising 5 in a nursery setting? Now there's consistent.

Or Mr Mann can help you with your maths but you are going to have to remain in wet pants until Mrs lady comes back from whatever errand she's running because Mr Mann isn't allowed to help you change?

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:55

To be clear, I absolutely support taking steps to stop incidents of abuse in nurseries. I just don't believe a wholesale ban of male workers is the answer.

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:54

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:51

... because men in early years settings are massively disproportionately likely to be there in order to abuse children.

With respect, your husband's feelings are totally irrelevant to these stark facts

Where have I mentioned my DH's feelings about this?

balletflatblister · 13/02/2026 22:51

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:49

If you know MOST men who work with young kids are not abusers, why do they need to be banned wholesale from nurseries then?

... because men in early years settings are massively disproportionately likely to be there in order to abuse children.

With respect, your husband's feelings are totally irrelevant to these stark facts

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 22:51

Passingthrough123 · 13/02/2026 22:49

If you know MOST men who work with young kids are not abusers, why do they need to be banned wholesale from nurseries then?

Because most sexual abuse in nurseries is committed by men, and paedophiles are disproportionately likely to volunteer for that job. Ban men, sexual abuse in nurseries will be drastically reduced.

OP posts: