to think some people would be weirdly excited if WFH came to an end?

I think a lot of it is jealousy. I do hybrid and it’s fits so well with my life but I know others can’t and that seems to bring out a jealous streak.

Great, they don't have to make us all do that too.

There is a Scottish government body that I deal with quite a lot in work and since COVID their service has gone to absolute shit. There is a lot more home working within the body but it's too simplistic to say that's the cause. There's an acceptance in many areas of much poorer standards for customer service and that's the case whether it's someone answering the phone in their house or standing behind a customer service desk. It's been the case for a long time that many organisations make it as difficult possible to contact them and to get a straight answer or resolution. I don't know why people think hone working or flexible working is the problem.

They presumably wouldnt apply for wfh jobs then? It is weird that people seem excited by it when it's not their job, their workplace or really anything to do with them, but they want people back in the office, because they once saw a person taking the piss or have some weird warped view of one type of wfh situation and therefore they think it applies to all industries and all jobs.

Good to see the point being made about investment. We don't do that, when it comes to customer service. We also didn't do that when we were still making most people in these roles come and do them in physical premises, and shockingly enough there was always rapid turnover and recruitment problems. Even back when we had an economy where there was more competition for 'low skilled' work.

We've had call centre recruiters on here before explain that they'd struggle even more to fill vacancies if they required in person work. These aren't jobs with many perks, so removing one may not be sustainable.

That doesn’t follow - that a job wfh with limited human interaction is one that is ripe for AI. I wfh with limited human interaction and most of what I do AI can’t. It’s a solitary, thinking, creative and planning job. It’s the jobs where people say they are on calls or meetings all day that puzzle me. Unless you work in a call centre, when do you actually do any work?

Why 'weirdly' excited? It might seem weird to people who are happy at home, have a nice house or supportive partners and family etc. But some people have valid reasons for wanting to get out of their house or away from their partner, or just to meet other people. Wanting to go in to work wouldn't seem at all weird to them.

I’m a doctor so work in a hospital. Would be gutted if wfh stopped as it would make commuting traffic even worse! I don’t want everyone back on the roads

It's all a bit ridiculous, my entire dept WFH. So we'd lose our jobs. I doubt he'd be very popular if he made thousands of people unemployed.

I hate that kind of customer service experience and I mentioned earlier, but I don’t think that means those roles shouldn’t be done from home, just that they need to be managed better. Plenty of customer service roles are outsourced but in offices and the quality is not necessarily better. The biggest issue I think is how little those roles are invested in - pay, training etc. That won’t magically improve if people are in a crappy office on an industrial estate they have to drive to and with nowhere good for lunch.

Yes.
The thing is i dont mind paying tax. Since (hopefully at least) that money goes towards benefits or nurses or roads or what have you. I know "politics of envy" was a key phrase on the right for ages for high tax policies. But the real politics of envy is this. Its not improving one person's lot in life. It's making someone else's life worse. And the WFHs affected might be reasonably fortunate in that they have nice sit down jobs. But they aren't the billionaires. It's just another way to get the plebs squabbling and attacking each other while the super wealthy drain of all the money.

”I am not sure most Teams meeting with false backgrounds, mics on mute and often cameras off constitute what I would think of as human interaction.”.

A classic example of someone making assumptions about how other people work.

In my company we use Teams calls internally tas a means to communicate so of course we have mics on and it’s the norm to have cameras on too. If you need to discuss a document, then it’s actually preferable to do this over Teams as everyone can see what you are talking about clearly. The in-person version is crowding round someone’s desk or doing it a meeting room on a large screen which is an extra faff to set up.

And yes, we have a ‘false’ background but it’s because we use them for external calls as ours has our logo on it so it’s helpful when you are on a call with multiple parties. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with this.

I am now of an age when many of my friends’ children are in the workplace, a fair number from home. I am not convinced they are nearly as involved or interested as I was in my work when I had my first office job.
I think the demographic here is mainly only and who live in nice houses with family. I think that demographic is most likely to like WFH.

Have you thought about the possibility that you and your friends kids might not actually be representative here, speaking of demographics? If you're a teacher and previously did well in an office job, by definition you're someone who wasn't excluded or particularly disadvantaged by the old model of in person work. You did well in multiple in person fields. There were always people who couldn't do that for reasons of location, disability, caring responsibilities, neurodivergence etc.

We do actually need to think about them too, not just you and people like you. If your friends mostly have nice houses, it's not a great surprise that your anecdata mostly focuses on that group. Rather than, say, those young people living in low quality accommodation with family but who can't afford to move close to good job markets.

One way to make your own life ‘seem’ better is to take something away from someone else. It’s not about bettering your own prospects; rather dragging someone else’s down.

In the company I work for, all the offices were sold, leases not renewed and all contracts were changed to home-based. There’s no way we are ever going back to an office environment. Many staff would like to go back - if you are working in a tiny space at the end of your bed in a studio flat or house share, it’s really not ideal.

It’s definitely jealousy from people that either were not able to work from home before they retired, or are in a job that can’t be done from home. They have in image of people having an easy life at home with a laptop putting their feet up, rather than considering the amount of time and money people are saving by not commuting and the realisation from companies that people can do just as good a job from their own home, and often productivity is higher!

@AmusedShark ,

‘I don't think anyone, or at least most people aren't saying WFH means no or limited human interaction.
What is happening is that human interaction is happening online.
Still human workers, still interacting..
I think a lot of people think WFH means just emails or something?
It doesn't.’

I am not sure most Teams meeting with false backgrounds, mics on mute and often cameras off constitute what I would think of as human interaction.

I taught remotely throughout COVID, and attended Teams staff meetings etc. They felt nothing like normal teaching or a normal staff meeting.

I am now of an age when many of my friends’ children are in the workplace, a fair number from home. I am not convinced they are nearly as involved or interested as I was in my work when I had my first office job.

I think the demographic here is mainly only and who live in nice houses with family. I think that demographic is most likely to like WFH.

This.

The government won't mandate this, other than perhaps for civil servants, and even there I suspect it will depend on the job.

I suspect more and more companies will limit wfh in various ways, which obviously many people won't like, but others will.

The one thing that amazes me about any discourse around WFH is the number of people who seem to know the ins and outs other people’s jobs and companies. I don’t see how anyone else can make a call about whether WFH or office is better for my role or my company.

It's incredible the way remote working threads bring out all the experts in jobs they've never done and sectors they've no experience of.

The thing is the infrastructure just can't cope with everyone back in the office.

I only have to do a 35 mile journey when I go into one of my offices, went in on Tuesday and it took 90 minutes to get there and 140 minutes to get home, no obvious issues i.e. accidents, but just sheer weight of traffic.

Went into London on Wednesday and train problems mean't a 3.5 commute home for a journey that should take about 90 minutes.

Whatever crap is being spouted, the sharp rise of road useage in the last 2-3 years compared to covid is astonishing. Everywhere you go there are roadworks, potholes and problems. Trains are already packed, railways seem to need huge upgrades, stations can't cope with the number of people in them at core times.

Easy to make a stupid throwaway comment to get everyone frothing but the simple fact is, it's just not possible.

The one thing that amazes me about any discourse around WFH is the number of people who seem to know the ins and outs other people’s jobs and companies. I don’t see how anyone else can make a call about whether WFH or office is better for my role or my company.

i work in an environment where we are trusted to just get on with our jobs. As long as we get done what we’ve been tasked to do then we are free to manage when and where we do that. Obviously you can’t completely disappear during normal UK working hours but generally if you need to pop out for a couple of hours in the afternoon, no one would care as long as all your deadlines are met.

We have only recently got an office after a number of years of using a small serviced office as a place to meet. I find 2 days in the office works for me. Like most of my colleagues we choose to WFH when we have lots to do and/or need to concentrate!

I personally don’t find the open plan office a productive place to work. We are all over Teams chat which I think works better for those quick questions your colleagues might ask you as you can reply when it’s a good time, rather than feel obliged to answer immediately when they’re stood next to you!!

I don't think anyone, or at least most people aren't saying WFH means no or limited human interaction.

What is happening is that human interaction is happening online.

Still human workers, still interacting..

I think a lot of people think WFH means just emails or something?

It doesn't.

I think reading this thread and many others on MN on this topic, a lot of people seem to genuinely think WFH means you log onto a computer, answer some emails and do what the hell you like all day and all week? or just bunk off whenever is convenient.

And no-one can tell? and no-one could be sacked because it's a human right to WFH or something?

No, that's not how it works..

Who is multi-tasking with childcare? This is complete nonsense.

most people who wfh send their children to nursery or school. Those that don’t need to be called out by their companies and eventually fired if they persist.

there have always been exceptions for the odd sick day or inclement weather day. Back when I first started, sometimes people would have their children sitting in the corner of their office from time to time in an emergency.

professionals understand that they can’t get their work done with children around all the time. This isn’t really an issue.

I agree with you about Nigel Farage's hypocrisy, but do not with the Nazi comparisons. Reform and Nigel Farage could not organise anything, whereas the Nazis could with all the evil consequences that resulted.

As per usual Nazi Nigel is a total hypocrite:

As reported by The Independent, Reform UK is offering home-working options to staff, despite promising to eliminate remote work once it takes control of local councils.
Reform’s South Central Regional Director job ad guarantees “home working with occasional travel within the region.”
A £50,000 annual role is being advertised just days after Reform leader Nigel Farage promised that remote work would be banned in councils controlled by his party.