To think the way MN lets anti trans extremists hijack a tragedy is pretty despicable

Yes. Women like the women here, some of whom started out on Mumsnet.

You don’t seem all that well informed, and unaware of the limitations of the Williams Institute data. We have discussed these issues for a decade. Most TRA statistics are nonsense.

Nope, it's a fact, just one you don't like.

No, it is not.

As pp pointed out, women can’t suffer hate crime because misogyny isn’t considered an aggravating factor.

I haven’t noticed it here but IRL I know a man who is especially obsessed with mass shootings when the perpetrator is trans.

Doesn’t care about any of the other weirdo school shooters.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/types-crime/hate-crime/context-and-characteristics-hostility-towards-sexual-orientation-and-transgender-identity

Yes. There this group of people do experience abuse and harassment?

More than any other group? What about women? More than women?

Some people are getting very rich convincing young boys that they need to become girls.

It’s good that women are talking about this, it’s only through women coming together that things like the Supreme Court judgement are happening, which ruled that the terms ‘woman’, ‘man’ and ‘sex’ refer to biological sex.

Yes, it is true. A murder victim in the UK is statistically more likely to have been murdered by a trans identified male than to be one.

Yes.... there are 'plenty of links' of agencies and people misusing the soundbite you linked to. All using the same press release.

Here are some. Just because there are 'lots' doesn't mean that the claim was accurate or had the precision to be useful.

-Statista have used this document.
https://www.statista.com/chart/27456/increased-likelihood-of-us-transgender-people-becoming-victims-of-a-crime/

And yet just a couple of examples of use in 2025 are:

-GenderGP has linked the press release that I posted on their site. From what I can find, the four times only refers to that Williams Institute press release.

Trans People at Four Times Greater Risk of Violence Than Cis People
https://www.gendergp.com/anti-trans-violence-on-the-rise/

" Trans people are more likely than cis people to be victims of a violent crime. Anti-LGBTQ+ hate crimes are also on the rise. This violence influences not only their mental and physical well-being but also when they decide to start gender-affirming healthcare.

Research indicates that trans people are at significantly greater risk of violence than their cis counterparts

A 2021 study published by the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law found that trans people are four times more likely to experience violence and abuse compared to cis people. Around one in every four trans women who were victims of a violent crime believed it to be due to their gender identity. In comparison, only one in every ten cis women believed it to be due to their gender. Half of all victims of violent crimes did not report it to the police. "

-Here is the Metro, earlier this year.

'A 2021 US-based Williams Institute study found that, in the year 2017-18, trans people are four times more likely than cis people to experience violence, including sexual assault and rape.'

https://archive.ph/Ceb9Z

Article by Ugla Stefanía Kristjönudóttir Jónsdóttir aka 'Owl' Fisher. A male who declares that he is a feminist.

-Politifact in the USA used this sound bite in the Sept 2025 article "Are trans people ‘statistically’ more prone to commit gun violence? Data shows a different picture

https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/09/trans-people-mass-shootings-gun-violence/

They used in the section with the sub heading: Trans people are more likely to be victims, not perpetrators, of violence

We tried to talk about it long before this devastating tragedy and they didn't want to allow it then. So if we can't talk about it before it happens, and we can't talk about it after...

So you claim that trans people are more likely to be a victim of crime, but then link to hate crimes? How many hate crimes were reported against women for being women? Oh that would be none, because women don't have that level of protection, so what figure are you comparing this to exactly?

Thanks

Maybe this will help

”Transgender people are over FOUR TIMES more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

This quote below keeps appearing:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

It was from this press release.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

I have a few issues with this press release. I think it has been used widely and extensively since it was released. I believe this document discusses those crime statistics

escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

It refers to 369 trans people who identified their sex vs 435 061 people who were not trans identified in a study. There were 420 in total.

The numbers of members of each cohort
not transgender - 435,061
transgender man (TIF) - 181
transgender woman (TIM) - 188
prefer not to say - 51

The sample size was not mentioned at all in the press release!!

Just being generous and using the full transgender population of this survey, that equals 420/435061 =0.000965 x 100 = 0.09% is not a population that you could draw many confident conclusions from. And it would be ridiculous to make the comparison on such a small sample size.

Think about this from the point of view that women around the world admit they don’t bother to report their sexual assaults and rapes. Because they have no confidence that they will get justice AND not be vilified in the process.

What % of females actively reporting their attacks vs current trend of not bothering to report would decimate that 420 figure?

And that number cannot be accurately depicted in this point either;

”About half of all violent victimizations were not reported to police. Transgender people were as likely as cisgender people to report violence to police.”

Sure this 'maybe'. However, I believe the huge number of women telling us they don’t report.

This article is misrepresenting the reality.

Then there is this claim:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Including! Notice it says ‘including’!

Not ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.”

What was NOT included was a handy breakdown of what constituted the crimes against trans people were. What was the bar for a hate crime being committed for instance? Misogyny? Does that fit the definition that holds for transphobic hate crimes?

“One in four transgender women who were victimized thought the incident was a hate crime compared to less than one in ten cisgender women.”

If females were taught how to accurately assess the motivation against them as to whether it constituted a hate crime, or indeed using the very same frames of reference as trans people do but based on sexism, and then they came back and reanswered that same survey, it suspect strongly that it will make that point meaningless? Is misogyny a ‘hate crime’ for instance?

If I were someone using that soundbite from that press release, I would be rather careful about how that information was gathered.

I think that posters who have pointed out that it is vital to have the fullest and most accurate information possible as soon as it comes to hand and before misinformation is spread is some of the best ways to gain understanding as to how this horrific incident happened and to start to understand why.

The people who consistently complain that 'this isn't the time' will use any excuse to try to stop the discussion. In short, there is never a 'right' time, nor a 'good' time.

Why are you trying to convince everyone to stop talking about the details of this terrible crime?

I don’t imagine the parents of those kids if that little girl in hospital fighting for her life after he shot her in the head twice will be feeling too kindly toward trans ideology at the moment.

As with most situations like this, the bereaved will be searching for answers. They will want to know why he did it, why the police put more people in danger by releasing a totally false description of him, why the worlds media are lying and prioritising the feelings of a dead murderer over the victims’ experience of being shot by a boy with severe m/h issues and why on earth people are disrespecting the victims by demanding that we ignore the major radicalising factor in the whole scenario that has already caused other deaths and will cause more in the future

You, OP and others are the ones showing a complete lack of common decency in demanding that we stop talking about this tragedy. You and much of the global media are disrespecting the facts of the crimes experienced by his victims.

@verytall You seem to be on here sharing your views just like everyone else. So are your views allowed to be writen, but those you disagree with, shouldn't?

I bet you'd have a hell of a lot to say on the day if a white male murderer was described by police as a black immigrant, wouldn't you? Same thing.

None of this is transphobic, you using this tragedy as a way to try and police others and call them 'anti trans' just because they don't think a male murderer should be labelled as female, is incredibly transparent. You clearly have your own agenda here, at least own it.

"Trans young people are twice as likely to be victims of crime than be perpetrators."

Really?

Since you are asking for evidence, I think maybe you should post links to your own claim to back it up.

What about if the person wasn't of a specific nationality and he was incorrectly described as such? What if he was described as an immigrant when he was a Canadian citizen? Would you not feel moved to comment on the incorrect reporting?