To think the way MN lets anti trans extremists hijack a tragedy is pretty despicable

Well feel free to PM then 🤷🏻‍♀️ I came here to engage with OP

Me too

Which posters on here are men? I'd like to know.

Putting words in my mouth again I seem I agreed with OP I think the jumping on this incident so soon is ghoulish. Just cos I didn't say something you're accusing me of that doesn't mean you get to do the same again. Happy you agree that there are males on FWR and you're aware of them posting under usernames that conceal their sex.

No I'm do e engaging with you (repeating this now!) please don't be a man who refuses to accept a no 😁

Okay so you think it's reasonable to point out that this is a man and the press is lying, great, we agree.

As for your weird, fake 'man outing', keep rabbiting on about that if you want I guess, it's a free country 🤷‍♀️

Deflection from the subject youre insisting I engage in which wasn't my original point I made on this thread? Yeah, cos I'm not here to engage with you. You could have scrolled past my comment instead you're the one deflecting by trying to start an argument with me based on a question you wanna ask me. Unless you wanna quote em where I said it's hateful to say this individual is a man you're insistence on badgering me makes no sense. It seems that me stating I found many posters on FWR to be male seems particularly hateful to you that you're insisting on putting words in my mouth or you simply misread my post in your anger? 😂

Just more deflection, insinuating people are male rather than answer a very simple question. We can all see what you are doing.

Once again, can you please explain why you think it is so 'hateful' to point out that this individual is a man?

Absolutely this. We should not be wasting our time wondering what may have led a 'young woman' to carry out this crime. We should not be going down the blind alley of questioning what it could be about being a young woman that could have led to this. To believe it may indicate a pattern of behaviour to which young women may be at risk. To target preventative interventions towards young women in the hope of reducing risk, when the committal of this crime has absolutely nothing at all to do with young women.

Let me help you - people on internet forums make comments and I made mine that I agreed with OP that people hijacking a tragedy immediately to focus on their own issues were ironic given many posters who do this are men others on here assume are women. You were welcome to quote my comment with your own, but you don't get to then demand I engage in conversation with you or answer any random questions you wish to ask me. Most women know and converse this way btw, I think the male dominated discussions are rubbing off on some people, it's a very male trait to think you control a conversation or that people owe you any kind of attention or interaction.

They aren't though are they? It's the quickest attack aimed at people who might not be as GC as others "oh you're a man!" But everytime one of the regulars gets outed as a man it's no big deal and the women who are uncomfortable at those men participating in threads under a username that doesn't make their sex clear is the problem, which wouldn't be ironic if you weren't so quick to accuse anyone else of being a man. Oh and none of the men who have been told they make women uncomfortable for not having a username that makes their sex more obvious have actually complied with that to make women more comfortable either have they 🤔

Discussing the reasons behind these tragedies is essential to help identify the underlying causes and try and prevent it happening again. When

Are you saying you think the fact that this was a trans identified male is irrelevant to his crime? On what basis do you say that?

There are two reasons women here are commenting. First. We have every right to highlight that the press is lying, that the shooter was male and this is not our crime. It is not disrespectful to the victims to call this lie out. They deserve the truth to be known about how and why they died.

Second, women here have been questioning whether people experiencing gender distress are more likely than the general population to have severe mental health issues. The evidence is mounting that this might be true. You chiding the women here for asking this question makes it harder to ask the difficult questions that need to be asked to help kids like this in the future.

I see no glee on display here, what I do see is a bunch of weary but determined women, asking the questions that absolutely need to be asked. We have long built up immunity to scoldings like yours. We were told #nodebate for years, and we kept going, being difficult women asking difficult questions. And it is working. We have changed the UK. We have protected our spaces and our children. So no, we won't be quiet.

Since 2000 in the UK there have been 39 murders/manslaughter convictions and 8 attempted murder convictions of trans identifying individuals. Almost all of these born male. There is a list of these convictions.

Since 2000 there has been a total of 9 trans people (several born female) murdered (UK).

There is no actual evidence of your repeated claims. Compare:

Several police forces placed ads on social media urging men who identify as women to report ‘misgendering’ as a hate crime. Stickers with “Woman = Adult Human Female” have been counted in the ‘hate crime’ statistics, as have ribbons tied to a fence (a woman was arrested and taken to court over that).

If crimes against trans people were genuinely so prevalent the police wouldn’t be advertising to generate more.

Compared with:
several police forces have objected to the inclusion of Sex (ie. women) as a protected strand in hate crime laws on the grounds that they wouldn’t be able to cope with the vast numbers involved.

Also consider the case of nurse Jennifer Melle. She referred to a male patient as ‘Mr’ and ‘he’ while talking to a doctor about his treatment. He (a violent convicted sex offender) tried to attack her physically and repeatedly called her the N word.

Or the female patient (who had previously been raped do was nervous of being vulnerable around men) had her operation fir a life threatening bowel condition summarily cancelled by the hospital because she requested that a trans identifying male nurse was not to attend her while she was unconscious. He had already been behaving in a concerning way towards her.

Or the female patient raped on a hospital ward by a trans identifying male and the hospital staff lied to the police to protect him for a whole year.

This list is endless and demonstrates the current balance of power between women’s safety being totally subordinate to the wishes of men who identify as trans.

Your claims are demonstrably false.

When awful tragedies like this happen, people will want to look at the kind of person who would ever do something like this. Who were they, what drove them, that sort of thing. They want to try and make sense of the senseless, because it is so extreme, so unfathomable.

Just because you don't like this brings trans into it, and would rather we ignore that bit, (because it rather draws away from that these are all just lovely people who just want to pee, and wouldn't hurt a fly) and would like us all to shut up about that....well sorry but no.

School shootings are just the exception, are they?

Can you even explain why you think it's extremist, to want a male child killer to be referred to as male?

This is certainly the most horribly ironic OP of the year so far.

Don't forget the mushroom farm in Cumbernauld!

It'd be funny if it weren't actually so wrong.

Some people have nurtured grievance and encouraged and urged reporting of the most minor nonsense, to try and manipulate the stats.

Despite their best efforts, race and disability are by far the most recorded/reported characteristics wrt hate crimes. And a police spokesperson noted the increase in reports of minor incidents was behind the majority of what was reported as a surge in 'trans' related hate crime.

Its like some people never heard the story of the boy who cried wolf.

As a poster on the other thread pointed out, children the age he was when he embarked on the gender identity thing (probably also the age he started accessing anime porn).

I'll froth all I want at the outrageous abuse of people with undeveloped brains that facilitates mental collapse.

The way your frothing and outrage takes precedence over a human tragedy speaks volumes.

By human tragedy, do you mean the Tumbler Ridge shooting where FIVE women and girls were amongst those killed by the MALE shooter?

You seem to have zero sympathy for the women and other victims of a tragedy where a male tried becoming a woman, didn’t like the results, and decided to take it out on his mother and other women.

Logically you must surely see A doesn't necessarily equal B? The likelihood of a person reporting harassment and violence depends on many variables. For example, the likelihood the behaviour is classed as a crime, that the victim will understand and percieve it as a crime, the level of encouragement they get to report the behaviour, their fear of repercussions from the perpetrator.
If we consider all these variables and apply them to harassment against trans people and compare it to MVAWG, logic will tell you there is a greater likelihood of a trans person reporting in an environment where harassment against them in all forms is clearly stated to be hate. Where there are numerous high profile examples of strong action taken against perpetrators. Where they are less likely to have an ongoing relationship with their perpetrator. Where they don't have to look far to find strong support online, in groups set up for them, in agencies that have very vocally committed to centering their needs.
Compare with the average woman who is likely to have experienced street harassment from her early teens, dating from a time when she would have been encouraged to see it as a compliment. Who since childhood has accepted it as a part the life experience someone with her body should expect. Where systems and structures are show time and again their bias towards those who harass her.
We don't even need the stats that show women are the most likely group to be murdered compared with trans people as the least, to know that MVAWG is the greater problem. Common sense tells us why reporting stats don't reflect that.

It seems that the OP just will keep reposting the same links. There is no engagement there at all. Maybe they don’t even read what people are saying because their prejudice is so strong they will double down on a contrary opinion just because someone they have a prejudiced view about said.

The lack of engagement in posting just the links is an indication that they are not the type to go further to gain a depth of understanding. It is just repeating sound bites.

You keep posting these links but you also continue to show that you don’t read them or the data that the statements are being drawn from.

What is also interesting is that you seem completely unable to discuss the data at all.

Shall we just keep posting the same information that puts your links into context every time you post the same links as you have resorted to doing?

“frothing and outrage”?

That really has been shown to be you at this point. The hypocrisy really is quite clear now.

These “hate crimes” mostly didn’t go any further than some policeman or woman writing it down. There were even apps and reporting stations (one in a sex shop IIRC, in Scotland) for people to report all these spurious hate crimes. And then misleading statistics get published.

You have provided no evidence of that at all. You really don’t seem to have read or understand what you have posted either.

As I and others have pointed out, there is no equivalent ‘hate crime’ against female people available in the UK. Have you not seen the articles suggesting it should be debated in Westminster? That is because there is no equivalent available recourse for female people.

You have relied on posting hate crime data - which includes the ability which we have seen real publicised examples of also, of people reporting tweets and stickers as hate crimes. And domestic abuse has been clarified also to include misgendering.

That is a very low bar for ‘reporting’ and many ‘reports’ are not prosecuted.

You also posted results from surveys. Not reported incidents. Those surveys are also based on perceptions of crimes being committed when we know that there is this perception that misgendering is a hate crime etc. However, not only that, but the numbers of respondents that have transgender identities is very small. One link you posted was just 63 respondents out of a very large sample of the general population.

Even the official reports you linked about the surveys stated clearly this low number meant the data had low reliability. Yet, you and the media who reported those stats, take them as being stronger than the offical data analysts reported.

Now you seem unwilling to take onboard the discussion where people are pointing this out to you. Yet you are the poster making judgements about others and doubling down on flawed claims.

In all of those links you presented, there is not an equivalent analysis of other very specific groups. Nor the very obvious one, female people.

Do you really believe that the group of people with transgender identities experiences greater incidences of hate, harassment and abuse than female people in the UK? when it is so ingrained in us as girls and women to ignore the abuse, harassment etc and most of the time it doesn’t even register with me when I get called misogynistly abusive terms.

No one denies there are legitimate claims that can be made that people with transgender identities do experience abuse and harassment. What people are rejecting is that this is more than other groups and that it is at the levels that have been publicised.

People have been rejecting misinformation. Which was also the major factor of discussion you disapproved of about the recent Canadian shooting and your have labelled as ‘anti-trans’.

Who benefits in society from misinformation being spread and accepted as fact and as being accurate?

Stating facts rather than delusion is not 'extreme,' it's the opposite.

Stating the sky is blue, and refusing social pressure to say it's red, is not extreme.

How do you feel about Rachel Dolezal?

A 'serious crime' is likely to be misgendering or as we say 'correctly sexing' and the stats have been manipulated for years to include actual crimes against gays and lesbians to bump the numbers up to make 'trans people' whatever that is look like the biggest victims ever.

Like, when has any police force ever said 'women, have you ever been a victim of a crime, report it here so that we can work to rectify it and throw funding at sorting it', whereas when funding WAS given to women, anyone applying for it had to include men or they wouldn't get it.

So utterly twisted and manipulative. All part of the war on women which is a global endeavour.