To think the way MN lets anti trans extremists hijack a tragedy is pretty despicable

The trans subreddits are unhinged, but a drop in the ocean of Reddit’s awfulness. But you go on believing MN is worse.

Sorry, but for all MN's faults (and knowing women don't have cocks is not one of them), I am absolutely splitting my sides at the idea that chuffing Reddit is a calmer, more humane, kinder and morally superior place. Reddit!

I'm going to die laughing at that one!

Who is defending starving babies?!

And the erosion of womanhood is something many of us take very seriously and want to keep talking about. Sorry not sorry we refused to be gaslighted by misogynists. Being on MN is not a requirement if you don’t like.

Like I said it's easier to find some humanity there. There are awful subreddits for sure but other than things like pregnancy/birth whatever on here that I have no interest in there is no escaping the shit posting here. The chat boards are full of it. I can browse reddit and find lots of interesting things to read without ever having to read mums defending the starvation of babies or reading 'at least they know what a woman is' peppered into completely irrelevant topics. If you choose to read trans subreddits good for you, I've no interest and that's the great thing about reddit I can avoid them completely here you can be reading a thread about anything and someone will try and shoehorn it into the conversation.

If your truly concerned about the mental health of teenagers who claim a trans identity perhaps you could stop affirming them, stop lieing to them by telling them that they can change sex, that they pass and that we want them dead.

Nobody wants them dead or harmed. We want them to get proper mental health treatment that isn't the direct equivalent of agreeing with an anorexic person that they're fat and giving them a diet and exercise plan (this is what affirmation therapy is). We want them to have a chance to live a happy healthy life that doesn't involve mutilating surgeries and body's destroyed by cross sex hormones and puberty blockers which prevents their brains from maturing into an adult brain and wrecks their fertility and bone health (to name but a few consequences of taking pbs).
You call this hate we call it safeguarding and treating mentally ill teens appropriately so they can grow up into healthy adults.

By a man.

What do you class as anti-trans hate because all I see is women stating facts and figures which prove that gender identity ideology is a dangerous death cult that harms everyone who is drawn into it and destroys lives whilst removing womens rights

Still focusing on the trans aspect here pet, and not on the victims.

Well there are two separate issues here that people are absolutely right to call out.

1. The increasingly obvious overlap between having mental health issues and assuming trans identities and concern that this individual was not receiving the psychological support he needed.

2. The misreporting of this male as female and what that means for standards of journalism, accurate information and data collection and just basic respect for reality.

The whole thing is a horrendous mess. We're not going to get anywhere if we can't talk about it.

The supposition that all trans persons are mentally unwell is a continuing opinion for many people, no matter what the age. Unfortunately what will happen is nothing because people will be focusing on the fact this individual was trans identifying.

Correct. Disassociation with your healthy body to such a degree is a clear mental health issue. This particular m/h issue almost always has significant co-morbidities with other m/h and conditions like autism etc.

The major problem occurs when, as you say, people focus on the trans identity. As soon as ‘trans’ is mooted as a possibility, mental health professionals jump on that as a ‘diagnosis’ (even though it is a condition) and the other m/h issues get ignored and remain untreated.

These extremely vulnerable children are then frequently given powerful drugs and hormones which alter their brain and body development and as we can see often exacerbates issues.

We know how much normal teenage hormones affect kids - imagine giving them wrong sex hormones and cancer drugs.

Canada are so far down the rabbit hole on this. I think it would be informative to look at the profiles if children committing this disproportionately high number of murders and assess if there are any common themes.

Either counteract the argument with your view, tell them what you think or ignore it. Or you could start a thread that defends the perpetrator, But this MN allowing these discussions like they should be banned is advocating censorship. I don’t get how people think you should shut others up. I for one would rather know what’s someone is thinking.

What like on r/transguns? If you think Reddit is twee crafting subreddits and the like you have zero idea of the unhinged, censorious, misogynistic cesspit it is.

I agree that it's become quite unpleasant on mumsnet in general. A particular low point for me was last year when people were rushing to point out that the mum of a starving child in a war zone was 'well fed' and that she was probably just gobbling up all of the food instead of feeding her child. There is a lot of anger here, maybe that's just a reflection of the UK in general at the moment, and it comes out in really unpleasant, hateful ways.

I prefer reddit these days, it's easier to find some humanity on there.

While having ENORMOUS and equal sympathy for the murders of the boys, I need to plying out that Eresh makes a very valid point.

The law and widespread policies in Canada allow the boy who committed these murders to use female only spaces. His female victims may have had to change in front of him but use the toilet in earshot of him. That is significant and state sponsored abuse of girls.

You really are putting some utterly unjustified motivations on people posting about this issue.

How do you define ‘glee’? I think it is utterly offensive that you accuse people playing about the direct root cause of these deaths as displaying ‘glee’.

very wise, wrt Bluesky. When there was Musk-panic a few years back I joined it, signed in, and reeled back from all the sexualised anime style images, some in posts, some beside the user names, the likes of which I'd never seen on X.

So that was my hour there.

All the sympathy to the victims in the world isn’t going to address the issues that led to this young man killing children.

Believe me, the regular posters on this have HUGE sympathy for the victims but standing around wringing your hands is not going to prevent these extremely troubled young men doing it again. And again.

If you are calling us extremists for calling for truth in news reporting, crime recording and to address the insidious gender ideology that has caused many to lose contact with reality then sadly, you are part of the problem.

@DeanElderberry I wouldn't go near Bluesky but thanks for the heads up.

You have been unlucky in your X searching, as a forum it is clear-eyed about genderism. Try Dr P for a start.

https://x.com/Psychgirl211

Bluesky is different

What’s funny?

When anything awful and unbelievable happens, two common responses are to want to know that it will never happen to them/their child and to try to understand why or how it might have been prevented. Both responses are somewhat linked.

So for anyone trying to understand, the trans identity will be very much part of the picture of under supported mental ill health. The conclusions people draw from that will differ.
What counts as good mental health support? Is it gently exploring the young person's experience and worldview or is it affirmation of their worldview?

In addition, seeing a boy called a female when linked to crime is very concerning. Will this be noted down in official records as a woman's crime? Surely to try to understand how and why these horrific crimes are perpetrated we need honest data and factual discussion.

Unfortunately for you OP, this forum has intelligent women concerned for women’s rights and we aren’t prepared to pretend that the Emporer is wearing no clothes. You don’t scare us by accusing us of being meanies. We are smarter than you are and know more of this subject. So no we won’t STFU. We will continue to talk until the cancer that is gender ideology, that is demonstrably SO harmful, is stamped out of normality
😂😂 😂😂😂

Turn your attention towards the media outlets prioritising a lie that suits the murderer over the victims, and a justice system that does the same, and we won't have to mention it.

If it's not important enough for us to talk about, it's also not important enough to uphold a lie about. I know you lot like to claim it's only important insofar as it suits you but that's just as bullshit as this guy's identity. After all, you're only starting this thread because you're pissed off about it; this isn't a thread about the victims.

This absolute tragedy, the deaths of young children and a teen having a huge MH issue is obviously going to be discussed on here.

The teen boy who killed the school kids as well as their mother and step-sibling was also a victim in this. Instead of receiving help with their mental illness, they were bought a dress and allowed to believe they were a girl.

That’s not anti-trans. That’s being sympathetic to a kid in crisis and the catastrophe it led to.

And on X the only posts about this sad event are from trans supporters telling the trans community to stay safe. I can't find one of them that even mentions the shooting victims. So there you go.