To think the way MN lets anti trans extremists hijack a tragedy is pretty despicable

Won't somebody think of mens feelings?! Boo-fucking-hoo. You haven't got the first clue what hate actually looks like, hint, it looks like the actions of this evil MAN.

I'd rather read about knitting than read people cheering on racists 'because they know what a woman is'.

Who is doing that?

Who is cheering on racists because they “know what a woman is”?
Im not leaving I like it here, im not butthurt because women are speaking about the erosion of womanhood by men

Nope. I used to love mumsnet. I like reading about interesting topics, hearing people talk about issues. I don't enjoy the same topic being pushed into every single discussion, it's boring and so predictable at this point so I am opting out more and more and choosing a place that is more than a 1 trick pony. I'd rather read about knitting than read people cheering on racists 'because they know what a woman is'.

I thought that's what people wanted? If you don't like it leave and I and I am sure others are choosing more and more to do that to access more rounded conversations.

Talking about perpetrators and pretending there isn’t a problem with tran identified males doesn’t stop their grief.

But let’s say that we should let them grieve first - what’s the timeline for talking about this issue that is very much of public interest?

I’m literally talking about the judgment handed down today on single sex spaces that @Helleofabore mentioned.

Perhaps have some respect for the victims and let them grieve first though.

There really is something to be said about someone who complains that a general discussion thread about an incident is ‘hijacked’ by relevant and topical discussion just because the discussion didn’t follow that poster’s choices for what should be discussed on the thread. Posters who complained were reminded that they could start a new thread or that they could actually have the discussion they wanted on the thread if they posted accordingly.

Not only that, but within many of the posts was updated information and links to media around the world.

But apparently, we have a case of some posters wanting to curate a thread to suit them personally and complaining when it doesn’t suit them personally. And who seem to wish to denigrate anyone who doesn’t align with all their views and their etiquette .

What about the rights of the boys who were killed?

If I found MN so horribly toxic, I'd limit my time here.

I personally see no need to express sympathy for the victims and their families here online in a forum where they will almost certainly never see it. Can we never have any discussions about violent crimes without expressing sympathy first, to prove ourselves worthy and good people? What purpose does that serve? Take it as a given that, like most people, we are sorry for the tragic loss of life, then let us get on with the discussion.

The real problem here is that some people consider any critical thinking on the topics of trans violence and misreporting/inaccurate recording of that violence to be unforgivably hostile and "terf-y".

It’s so refreshing when people acknowledge women’s rights.

Yep

The judgement today was a clear statement about safeguarding needing to be clear and to exclude male people from female single sex provision.

But I guess some people would consider the judge today ‘anti-trans’.

They also don't deny any rights to trans identified men. They can still have spaces and services, they just need to be ones for male people or both sexes. In other words, exactly the same rights as everyone else.

But your statements are not 'anti-trans', partly because they do not 'exclude' female people with transgender identities. You are excluding all male people regardless of any identity that they have. That is following strong safeguarding principles where no sub groups of the sex being excluded should be allowed.

These are not extreme and should never have been controversial.

Mass shootings committed by males need to be clearly named as mass shootings committed by males. That's about all there is to say about it.

I do not believe that men can become women. I believe that is a biological fact.

I do not believe in letting men who say they are women access to women's spaces. I believe that this safeguards women and girls.

These views are certainly anti trans but I am interested to know if you they they are "extremist".

If they are, what makes them so and can you give an example of an anti trans view that is not extremist?

Or, is it that every woman who does not believe that a man can become a woman will always have the tag "extremist" attached.

Totally agree. THATS how offended they are, we are worse than violent men

I know...right?

Someone who wishes to complain about people's discussion points and shame them by judging the discussion as 'anti-trans' while ignoring people from Canada who do want to discuss aspects of the issues that that poster doesn't want to.

This

Yes, there's definitely the sense that women gathering and saying things they don't like need correcting and chaperoning. But of course there's also the idea that non compliant women are guilty of a terrible moral failing. Some... person, just yesterday, was telling us that things being said on a thread about the shooting were "equally reprehensible" as actually carrying out the shooting. Let that sink in, as the kids say.

Fucking Reddit is our moral tutor now! I know not all subreddits are deranged but that's the place that has organised real life harassment campaigns against people for stuff like blogging about being overweight. Like, turn up in real life to intimidate them, flood their socials with abuse, contact their employers with rubbish, that kind of thing, and that's even aside from the overtly violent ones.

And it's a better place, more human! God in heaven...

It is tragic for everyone that this very unwell young man did not get the appropriate care and mental health support he needed.

IKR!
Do you think these people are offended because it’s women coming together to talk about issues? Some people really rage because we don’t stick to talk about sleep deprivation and knitting.

Exactly.

Me too. Funniest thing I’ve read all week.