To think the most shocking thing about James VDB's death is...

In a documentary about the homeless in the US, several of those interviewed were on the streets after having had to re-mortgage or sell their homes to fund the treatment of a spouse. The ill spouse dies, and the remaining spouse is on the streets, where they are still hunted down and issued collection notices for outstanding amounts. It is very sad.

But we won't get a European model we will get the US model because that for-profit driven health business is what those who espouse a non-government insurance based NHS are looking to have. It will make them money and they don't give a toss about people not being able to afford health care so long as they make it.

I think the ideal would be a mixture of means assessment; private insurance; employer contributions; government contributions.

The NHS are finished and not fit for purpose. A PP states they dont know how much their treatment cost and that is the issue. People dont know or care. When something is free it is grabbed at, there are no consequences if they mess about or they have a 'key' word to enable them to get a Priority Ambulance. The admin people at Hospitals and GP's surgeries are using very old systems who dont talk to each other.

In a previous role I was involved with responding to the an NHS tender for new systems. To say the people on the NHS side were protecting their cottage industries is an understatement. They didnt want to train their people on a new system, they had meeting after meeting talking about shite. They also had a spec that bore no relationship to what was actually needed. They talked endlessly about value for money and many many times it was pointed out that you pay for a low cost service and then try it out is not sensible. Admit that you need a vastly sophiscated system and not try to do it on the cheap.

In the end it was all scrapped. No money apparently and it became a monster project with no end in sight.

I was in hospital with my late Mum and they couldnt find her on the portal. She had been registered with a GP surgery for years. Was getting repeat prescriptions and yet they couldnt find her on THEIR system. Says it all really....

Sorry what is this European model? It’s just general taxation right? I hear it said it’s insurance based but I don’t see it. Happy to be shown to be wrong. I believe there is a small national insurance element but that’s the same here.

i also believe there is an element of needing to have contributed to the national insurance to access public medical but that’s not a massive change to here?

these are genuine questions I hear people attack our model and say the European one is better but my little research on Google shows it to be largely the same as here

You are so right . I wish I could share your post on Facebook so the reformers see it .

I’m currently navigating cancer treatment on the NHS, so sick of people saying how bad it is, the care I have received has been incredible

Lots of people with chronic conditions are uninsurable.

I have had a serious autoimmune disease since my teens. When I tried to get life insurance when I was in my early 20s when I bought a house no company would insure me.

I now have a very expensive policy that will pay when I spend time in hospital but only pays 40k if I die. That isn't enough to help DH afford our life without me.

The only reason I have this is because a friend is a financial advisor and looked for the policy for free. Any other time I had enquired FAs heard my list of conditions and would not look into it any further as there were no suitable policies.

A family member with the same condition died at 40, their widow was left with no payout as again he was not able to be insured.

Not everyone is reckless about insurance, it is not available to all.

It's obvious from things Farage has said that the US model is the one he intends for the NHS. This was what Thatcher intended as well, and amazingly was stopped by Tories (who knew it was the vote loser of all time). But privatization is what many want. They see no value in a healthy population that has the health care it needs and a public health system (this is different from the NHS btw) that works to keep water clean etc. We vote Reform at our peril.

Op I agree with you. I've been scooped up by the NHS nicely this week. GP appointment yesterday led to blood tests and was then swiftly followed by issuing new medication and a referral to the hospital. I've been there all morning, had ECG, yet more bloods and whizzed by amazing porters to and from x ray and CT and back. No idea how much that little lot would cost if I had to pay, or if I'd only pick the very cheapest tests or what.

I do fear an American type system, and share the concerns that Reform would lean more towards that than a European model. The latter is something a more moderate party (or even better, cross-party collaboration) could have been working towards, but the political difficulties of addressing this have made it impossible, so they've all carried on with the 'envy of the world' nonsense.

It’s shocking OP - did you know each ear around half a million people file for bankruptcy due to medical bills in the US? So in answer to your question, this is what happens to ordinary people - they get seriously sick, often they go bankrupt, and when they die the bereaved families are left with the debt. It’s completely inhumane.

Who?

100 % agree

hmmm... a user with a single post bashing reform?

Exactly this; we won't have a choice of systems.

But some people don’t have holidays or meals out because they can’t afford those either!

Your insurance is also cheaper than it would be for many, if you have any health issues the premiums increase greatly. I pay more than you for a third of the cover, policy was taken out in my thirties.

OP whilst I agree with your point in general, I don’t think James van der Beek is a great example to use to make it. “Recognised worldwide for his role in Dawson’s Creek” - yes exactly, he probably didn’t get paid all that much back then as an unknown teenager starring in a show on a network that no-one watched, and it was 25 years ago and he’s barely done anything since. People who are gainfully employed would usually get insurance included as part of their remuneration package, but James was not. I suspect there are huge numbers of non-celebrity people who are better off than he was, and I’m talking about before he became ill.

I can’t recall a single party in the last couple of decades who haven’t said there are issues with the NHS. The fact that every government coming to power decides to do some kind of reform in the NHS would confirm everyone has been clear there are problems within it. However, a health service that is free at the point of use, for anyone who needs it, should be protected at all costs. When you look at the plummeting standards of oral health since the drop off of low cost NHS dentistry, where people can’t afford to go private, it’s not a stretch to assume the UK’s general health would suffer if a model for insurance came in.

We can say we’d prefer a half and half scenario but other nations who have this actually spend more per capita on healthcare than we do, and yet still our performance is ranked 4th overall.

The biggest problem is one nobody can solve without a major change, and that’s the ageing population. Ironically, that has happened because of the success of the NHS.

It should be a priority IMO - over holidays, meals out, etc.
My parents died within 18mths of one another when I was technically an adult but still far too young. The only thing that made it bare-able is that they didn't leave me penniless and homeless!

Life insurance in your 20’s should be very affordable. We have £750k of second death insurance for £65 a month and we are in our 50’s.

I'm glad you posted this OP as was thinking the exact same thing - how fucked is healthcare in the US that a wealthy man has to crowdfund to pay for his cancer treatment? I hope to god that we don't get a Reform government that kills the NHS.

If this was the first time I’d heard “Politician X will sell off the NHS to US insurance companies,” I might think that at least you believe it.

Sorry, but you are the one with the grift. The scare tactic. The conspiracy theory that somehow never happens, but that’s because it’s really Politician X + 1 who’s going to sell it off. Honest.

And you’ll do anything to sell your grift, including the OP piggybacking on some poor soul in the US who fell foul of their not-fit-for-purpose system. And you and your predecessors have been on this same grift since Nigel Farage was a bloody teenager. The only thing that’s changed is the name of the politician.

“Politician X will sell off the NHS to US insurance companies,” is a scam. That’s what I learnt. The hard way.

The current Labour government is the first one ever to bring private healthcare providers to the table in procurement discussions - that's far more terrifying than what any future government may or may not do because this is happening now.

I agree that the US system is awful. But, I think our UK NHS system is no longer fit for purpose or sustainable. It’s costing huge sums of money, which means education and social care can’t be funded adequately either. We’d be better off in many ways with a different funding model, more in line with other European countries. I don’t think Farage is the man to deliver this, though, and no other party will have the guts to do it as people are sentimental about the NHS.