"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

We don’t force but we exposed them to instruments. Neither DH nor I play an instrument (though I did at school) so we strongly encouraged Ds to try whatever was offered at school. He did guitar for a couple of years then clarinet for a couple and enjoys it ok - it’s not a big passion but he got a lot out of his first experience of being in a show.
I strongly believe Kids won’t spontaneously develop an interest in something if they’re not exposed to it - arty hobbies, different sports, reading for pleasure, music, outdoor pursuits - all things that kids need to see others enjoying.

No one ever said this to me and I'd have laughed and probably agreed with them if they had, but I admit I did feel like a bit of a failure for a while for NOT making my DC at least try learning instruments.

The thing is, neither of them is even remotely musical. DS1 was in the choir for a bit, but this was totally driven by me and he hated it so much that eventually the choir master and I agree he could quit (usually no one was allowed to quit once they got in)! DS2 is tone deaf, just like his father. It's sad, because I love music and am quite musical/have a good ear/can sing in tune/was always in the choir/played piano and violin (the latter very badly). I guess neither of my kids inherited that, and that's okay. They are good at and enthusiastic about other things - mainly sport.

And from what I saw with families whose DC played instruments, it was A LOT OF WORK for the parents. My good friend, who is incredibly musical herself, got all her three DC through Grade 8 on one particular instrument, but the work that went into that was mind-boggling and tbh I'm too lazy for that 😆

Sure, but that is a private matter for the child in terms of any personal qualities they may have developed through learning an instrument, or playing a sport, or volunteering or doing a dram, or whatever grabs them. Those are still not of any interest to a university looking at their application. Unless they’re studying something related.

If you read my posts I also said my DC do sport and love that too.

Its the fact the PP stated music or playing on phone. Talk about one extreme to the other

It’s great for them if they want to but you shouldn’t force hobbies

it's not superior, it just does a thing to your brain and body that's different to what sport does and intellectually plus physically improving in a way nothing else is. Sport also does some good things to your body that nothing else does, but doesn't rewire your brain the same way.

Yes I agree with you. I don't think music is superior to sport or whatever.

I don’t think anyone thinks or says that music is superior to these things? It is certainly different, and you can learn different skills from it. Most children I know who are doing music also do plenty of sport (eg for my DS - swimming, football, climbing and running (junior park run).

All mine had a go at one, made them do it a bit longer than they wanted, let them give up.

Playing for a football team holds so many life lessons, grassroots football is one of the best things there is for kids in the UK. Very snobby to suggest it is somehow less than music as a hobby.

I had mine learn but didn't put any pressure on them to do grades. I did it for the potential brain benefits and just in case they loved it or it was their thing. They played from about age 8 until the end of GCSEs but DD2 has come back to her instrument age 20 and I think she finds it therapeutic to play.

I don't think it is a middle class duty! But wish all.kids were given opportunities to play something for a few years in school - even if the ukulele or a drumming circle or something......

And what about kids that worked at dance or gymnastics or sports? Surely the discipline and resilience is the same. Why is music considered superior?

I quite like the Asian idea that first comes discipline, then comes freedom. It's wildly out of fashion in our culture today, to the extent that I think it's practically unworkable.

In an ideal world my children would have their music lessons as a non negotiable part of preparing to be a skilled adult human with the full range of capacity open to humans. Like writing fluently or knowing the rudiments of science. Yes it's boring to practice, yes you don't get much out of it for ages. But learning the structure of music, and the physical discipline of playing it well, the definition of "the more you put in the more you get out". It changes your brain and your ability to focus and concentrate and be in deep flow, in a way nothing else does.

I say in an ideal world because the way I parent my children isn't like that at all, (especially the PDA one arghhhh). But I think we have lost so much concentration and focus these days, I honestly don't know what my brain and personality would be like without the music lessons I had for 12 years.

I am very sad about it. I look at my children watching YouTube and I am sorry they are not more disciplined and bored - music learning, like other things like long walks through the countryside or reading 7 books a week, is something they just don't have the stamina for, and it's bad for them. Did I like doing my practice? Nope! I would have to force them, yes, and that forcing is so at odds with the rest of our world it would be cruel and unworkable.

But it's doing them no service to close off from them practically the highest human achievements, just because they're difficult and initially inaccesible.

I hate the way these threads all descend into 'what use is your grade 19 bassoon when you are landing a helicopter on an aircraft carrier' because making music is good for you and it's fun, can be social, and is a basic human instinct.

But there's no point by forcing anyone to do it just as there's no point trying to force kids to play a sport if they don't want to. I have practical experience of trying to 😂

I don't think that interests are coincidental though. I never play sport but I have been singing to and with the kids since they were tiny and now they are very musical and love music too. And these days I have enough money to encourage them to try all sorts of musical experiences so I do. The idea of it being my middle class duty to have them do it is really depressing quite honestly.

The only one of my children who is playing and performing music regularly as a young adult didn't have lessons as a child (some of his siblings did, though we're not a musically talented family) but decided to learn in his twenties. He regrets the missed opportunity but accepts that he wouldn't have coped with music lessons before he had developed organisational skills and self-motivation as an adult.

If they show no interest then of course it’s not appropriate to push them. My DD was desperate to learn to play the piano. I’m happy to try and facilitate that as I DO think it is a fantastic instrument to be able to play and I massively regret giving up lessons when I was younger.

Now we fork out for lessons and have bought a piano I definitely do insist she practises.

I hadn’t thought about it from a university point of view (she’s 7).

Was just thinking the same.

I agree with you that those stereotypes aren't useful to anyone (if they exist). My DS age 16 plays football and the trombone and loves both.

My daughter is going through her grades but she also loves teaching herself things like Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift songs. The joy of knowing how to read music is that you can play whatever you want!

“Middle class”? Your friend sounds like a dick.

personally both mine play, because I think it’s nice to have the opportunity. It’s obvious not every child does, there wouldn’t be enough music teachers otherwise

Dsis made dniece do piano lessons for many years .
Dniece passed her Grade 8 exam and swore never to play the piano again
My three dcs all play the piano. However, only dd1 continues to play . The other two have said that they have ‘retired’ .

I made my two do piano for a while. They hated it. Ironically they were both good at it. I think they would have preferred a young person actually teaching them how to play current songs.

Im not sure about that. My nice middle class 12 year old daughter is grade 5 piano, plays for a football academy and last year was the lead in her school musical 🤷🏻‍♀️. For me, it’s that we’re in a privileged position of being able to afford for them to pursue their interests, and this is what she has chosen to do.

Is there still a Northern Ireland social scene with flutes in it?

I don’t agree with forcing any child. My more musical one put herself forward at age 5 to learn the recorder. She then auditioned for the violin at age 7. Her choice. DD2 was not interested but did 3 types of dance classes because that’s what she enjoyed. Music is definitely more “academic”as reading music becomes a necessity. DD1 still sings in a choir. As music needs practice, it suits a certain type of dc. Forcing a child to do it will be pure misery. Most dc work out what they want to do and for some, it’s not much. For others, they engage with lots of things and it’s certainly better than screen time.