"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

My daughter had piano lessons since she was 3 and is 8 now. She was never bothered about practicing until a few years ago and we didn't force her as we didn't want to destroy any enthusiasm she had. Now she will sit down and "compose" and practice her pieces without much prompting. I think this is the way to go rather than forcing her to practice.

Argh! No! Please do not encourage your child to become that man who gets his guitar out at parties.

As I’ve now said 3 times on this thread, I know someone where their points via music grades were factored into their Russell Group uni acceptance, not at the offer stage, but on results day, where it tipped the balance in their favour after they missed an A level grade. Their original offer was not expressed in points, but they were told that this was part of the rationale in giving them the place, and it meant they went to their first choice uni rather than their insurance.

This was in response to someone saying that music grades were completely irrelevant unless you study music.

Most of the higher ranking unis consider grades, not points.
Even those that use points normally require the points to be acquired via 3 A levels, or BTEC or other equivalent. There are very, very few that take into account UCAS points accrued by way of dance, music, LAMDA, lifeguarding or anything else.

I dont think it should be forced on them if they dont have an interest. But I think they should have the opportunity to try for a few weeks to see if they like it.

Mine are all very into music with 2 of them seriously wanting to go to music college. and pursue it as a career. They only play at all because a charity local to me provides the chance of free tuition to every child in a local school so that cost is never a barrier to children having access to music.
Mine have run with it and are playing at a high level but plenty fall by the wayside and dont continue. Which is fine, but I do think its important that they had the chance.

Without music tuition in schools we will see professional music becoming entirely the realm of the middle class and that is truly unfair.

I think there’s lots of cognitive benefits to learning an instrument, but the social benefits are no different to other hobbies eg sport ?

My DD is a professional musician ( went to a conservatoire). She started on piano at 6 which she hated, did the prep test for grade 1 and quit. Asked to change instrument at 7 and never looked back. She still can’t play the piano. I never had to ask her to practice she just did it because she loved it. Her experience of taking part in music at school was made more difficult by kids who were forced to continue playing instruments they hated. By all means offer your child music lessons if that’s what they want but if it becomes a battle over practice just stop. Not everyone has the natural talent required - I certainly don’t. My DD teaches as part of her career and is staggered by the number of pushy parents she comes across (most of whom can’t play themselves) who are forcing their offspring to play multiple instruments under the misguided impression that this is somehow doing them good.

I think it’s like all extra curricular activities; if kids are interested by all means yes but if they’re not, why waste money on stuff they aren’t interested in?
I think swimming is a good life skill all my kids can swim but none particularly “like” swimming we never get to the school holidays with them asking to go to the pool - but they do other things they are more interested in.

as for social advantages - all clubs and hobbies are sociable aren’t they to mix with others but I agree there is a level of snobbery but round here music lessons extortionate so if they aren’t that interested best to spend the money on something else.

Never too late!

DH never learnt an instrument as a child. As an adult he would occasionally say he wished he had learnt the saxophone. When I got back in to music in middle age I discovered an excellent local music club for people of all ages and standards. I met lots of adults who were either returning to an instrument they had played at school or who were starting from scratch. Encouraged by this DH started to learn at the age of 50. When he started he couldn't even read music but he went on to pass a few grades and played in a local band for several years.

I think "middle class" tends to be associated in the uk with valuing education, and fostering knowledge of/interest in the arts more broadly is consistent with that. It doesn't have to mean classical music lessons. It can mean exposure to jazz, theatre, opera, art, sculpture, architecture. Things that broaden your horizons and forge connection in your brain, this tends to flow through to academic performance imho.

Ah ok I read it as learning an instrument improves my child’s social status.

yes, depending on instrument there are opportunities to join bands etc. Piano doesn’t offer much chance to play in groups but most other instruments do.

i play bass recorder in a recorder group and my social life is mostly around the two choirs, one band and one recorder group I play in.

Mine play instruments, we’re both from musical families so it’s kind of in the blood.

I don’t think you should force them at all, but you could gently encourage giving an instrument of their choice a try.

But no, you’re not failing in your duty as a mc parent!

I was forced to try various musical instruments by my mother who was very much concerned about appearances and maintaining a solidly middle class public image.
I hate every minute of it and eventually broke down in tears during a piano lesson.

Some people just don't have the interest or the talent and that's okay. I definitely don't feel that I've missed out on anything by not being able to play an instrument.

My dds school music teacher said that to us. He recommended we buy her a piano because "she shows such promise(picking out Drunken Sailor once a week in class) and as a G&T student we would be limiting her prospects if we didnt" We did not buy a piano-she's fine.

DH and I both do music so the kids were offered the opportunity. All wanted to.
They are adults now and have always dropped in and out of lessons as they liked. Two still have them (grade 8 and diploma level). As far as I'm concerned, if they are interested, it's great for brain development, resilience and social skills if they have others to play with. And once you've left home joining an amateur choir or orchestra can be a good way to make friends. But only if it's something they want to do. There are plenty of other ways to achieve all of those things and if they aren't interested, no-one needs the stress of trying to force practice. Mine have dipped in and out of exams as they liked and with their teacher have mostly just learned the pieces they've wanted to. The one about to do grade 8 has only done grades 1 and 4 so far. They have learned techniques and got better playing pieces they have wanted to learn - pop, jazzy, film soundtracks as well as traditional 'classical'.

If your kids are interested, it's great. But if they aren't, I don't see that it matters if they have other hobbies they'd prefer to do instead.

It is never too late.
I can play the bodhrán and tin whistle, won’t be winning any prizes.

Well that's not quite true!

My DDs have all played instruments and the main joy that flowed from it was joining in school bands and ensembles and in the county youth orchestra - they also went off on coach trips to play elsewhere with the groups. They had great fun and a lot of socialising went on. Creating a piece of music together is the ultimate social activity!

OP - you could simply offer the opportunity to your DC to learn an instrument and if they say no, then so be it. At least it has been offered. Don't know how big your DC is but take some advice as to which might be best to offer - a lot depends on the quality of the teacher.

My dad grew up very poor and longed to play an instrument.

He was therefore determined to make sure I did.

He bought a piano, which I had neither interest in or talent for. I haven't a musical bone in my body.

I went for lessons from 8 to 14, which I hated, and I was still rubbish.

Whenever I am trying to encourage my kids to take an opportunity that I didn't or won't have, I always check myself and ask "is this a piano job"?

Break the mould of middle class expectations. There is plenty of other things that can teach children about resilience and discipline. Teach them common sense, streetwise skills, empathy, about different cultures, they’ll benefit more from these lessons than any instrument.
A lot of smart people are a bit dumb. Likewise a lot of people who don’t have a good education are very smart, they’re both missing important skills.

Any instrument can potentially be sociable if you get the opportunity to play with others.

I learnt an instrument at school but we be were definitely not middle class! I am just lucky to be from the generation where instrument loan and tuition was freely available and our school (local comprehensive) had bands, orchestra, choir etc. I wasn't sporty at all and my best memories from school are playing in the band. I gave up after I left but came back to it as an adult, probably 20 years ago. Playing in a local band is one of my main social activities now and has given me a wide selection of friends of all ages and backgrounds who I wouldn't have met otherwise.

My DD learnt an instrument from a very early age but there was no question of forcing her. In fact the instrument she chose was not one I would have expected but she insisted she wanted to learn. She did a few grades, not to the very highest level, but as an adult she still plays for pleasure in a local light orchestra.

@titchy lots of that becomes available at school when they get a bit older. When my dc were young, some dc did a gym club and some went for junior tennis. Team sports - football and rugby and there was a local hockey club but not for primary dc. Art club? Quite rare as are uniformed clubs.

Dc should be offered opportunities though and my DDs did like to be busy after school. So at primary they did, between them, music lessons. Choir, string orchestra, 3 x dance, brownies, riding and swimming. DD1 did a netball club and never got in a team so not sure what benefit that had, other than to tell her she was useless.

Lots of parents don’t have time or money to facilitate these things though. I’d always hope a school will!

I think my life would have been better had I learned an instrument to a good standard as a child, and not because of "social advantages" (whatever those may be) but just because of the enjoyment of being able to engage with music more competently.

That is definitely not my experience. Parents with kids in gymnastics or dance are almost cult like in how they evangelise it. Social media is littered with kids doing some dance or gymnastics competition. It’s rare to see similar with kids performing in an orchestra, or doing a solo performance.

I’m not sure why it’s necessary to have an either or. As PP said, you introduce your children to things and see if they like it. Encourage them to try and not just quit because it’s boring.

Music teaching is really good for kids for a whole host of reasons, I’d like it to be given the same prominence as sport in schools, with free tuition available. Ultimately though, it is a parent’s choice what they want to do and nobody else’s business.

Music is seen as a middle class hobby because lower class people dont have access to it. It's exclusive. I was born into a Northern council estate and had free lessons. At age 8 I moved to the South East and could no longer have lessons. It upset me so much. I was pulled to music in a way that I can't even explain and it was cut off. Now as an adult I've been taking lessons for 5 years and it feels like I've come home to music. I've sacrificed a lot to make sure my children get that opportunity, but for them it was drama clubs. I wouldn't let finances be a barrier to their passion.

I agree. Why did it hit a nerve op, that’s something to delve into given you can’t stop people saying things.